PVP Factions

[Jackard]

As to reducing theft to brute force, theft *is* brute force at the moment. There's no other way to break down a wall and stealth is all but broken last I've heard. Regardless, taking out claims wouldn't need to rely on strength. It could rely on charisma. It could rely on a new point-based "razing" skill. It could rely on five players with torches. It could rely on an expensive-to-create alchemical bomb thing. It could rely on rubbing 500 fish on the post so it gets mauled into splinters by a rampaging horde of bears. It could rely on something or anything besides strength.

well, yes, that was kind of taken for granted, but more so than it already is

instead of trying to hide or reduce your scents after breaking in, all you'd need is to bust the claim and have a field day

[Erik_the_Blue]

Huh? Looting's fun. Why would I be multitasking while I'm having fun?

Moreover in the case of a hypothetical destroy claim action why would I be multitasking when I'm doing incredibly dangerous shit that makes noise and could get me killed?

The act of breaching the wall is not what I'd consider fun since all it involves is standing there, occasionally drinking tea. I'd assume the same of destroying the claim post since it's just the same action on a different object. As for being dangerous, I brought this up in reference to hermits, folk who don't have neighbors to come running should they hear the chopping sound. Nevertheless, it's possible to multi-task without obscuring the window (if your screen's too small, read a book, watch TV, etc.).

Edit: If you find the act of moving one's stuff off one's property entertaining in and of itself, then none of this applies to you. You're more interested in the means of thieving than the ends of thieving. Such a person will continue doing whatever activity they're doing in spite of having alternatives because it's the activity itself that interests them.

[Junkfist2]

instead of trying to hide or reduce your scents after breaking in, all you'd need is to bust the claim and have a field day

Yeah but I'd imagine that not only would all the items on the claim be tagged as stolen when the claim goes down but busting a claim would leave a reaaaaally long lasting, particular scent. "Miasma of Raiding" or something.

The act of breaching the wall is not what I'd consider fun since all it involves is standing there, occasionally drinking tea. I'd assume the same of destroying the claim post since it's just the same action on a different object. As for being dangerous, I brought this up in reference to hermits, folk who don't have neighbors to come running should they hear the chopping sound. Nevertheless, it's possible to multi-task without obscuring the window (if your screen's too small, read a book, watch TV, etc.).

Edit: If you find the act of moving one's stuff off one's property entertaining in and of itself, then none of this applies to you. You're more interested in the means of thieving than the ends of thieving. Such a person will continue doing whatever activity they're doing in spite of having alternatives because it's the activity itself that interests them.

I've almost completely lost track of what we're even talking about now. If this goes back to the argument about how moving things around for three, four, five minutes is more of a hassle than spending 20, maybe 30 minutes wearing a claimpost down, drinking tea for every minute-and-change of that...I mean...yeah I guess I'm technically able to multitask for under a minute but would you really say I'm putting forth more effort in the previous example?

Moreover we were talking about the moving and pointing and clicking and navigating and lifting and dropping, not the horrible tedious click wall drink tea element.

Finally why are we defending the existential rights of "hermitude"? When I see "hermit" I'm imagining a guy with no connections to a higher level player or community that can protect him. Those people are fair game to local thugs, thieves, tyrants, extortionists, whoever. It makes more sense that their claims would get destroyed out in the boonies by some regional warlord who is, there anyway, the law.

[Jackard]

instead of trying to hide or reduce your scents after breaking in, all you'd need is to bust the claim and have a field day

Yeah but I'd imagine that not only would all the items on the claim be tagged as stolen when the claim goes down

oh yea i forgot about that idea~

[Delamore]

Destroying something (like a claim post) only requires the player to tell the character to drink tea and go back to destroying on occasion. It's not that difficult to do this while multi-tasking (i.e. reading a website). Once the claim is destroyed, all objects on that claim are now un-claimed and easily accessible to everyone. The thief can now leave.

Moving things off of a claim requires the player to tell the character to go back and forth, picking things up and dropping them, all while navigating around obstacles on the claim. This requires more attention (and mouse-clicks) on the part of the player, and so is harder to do while multi-tasking. Only an object off the claim is easily accessible to others, so the thief has to repeat the actions for each and every object on the claim to achieve the same level of success as in destroying the claim. Thus, the more objects on the claim, the more effort the thief has to go through.

It's like how many people prefer to eat foods that aren't apples; the more actions and attention required on the part of the player, the more tedious that activity is and the less likely players are to engage in it. It may be faster to pick apples than it is to produce more filling food, but many prefer the less tedious activities over the less time-consuming ones.

Uh, explain why a thief has to move things off claim? Why can't the thief just take stuff on claim considering he has to have theft anyway?
And because the thief doesn't have to move things off claim regardless of if it was bashed or not, it takes longer if you actually bash the claim because you gotta bash it then grab all the stuff.

[Erik_the_Blue]

Because we were discussing the thievery in the context of allowing others to take the goods without fear of reprecussion. The character moving the goods or bashing the claim isn't the one actually taking the goods.

[theTrav]

Uh, explain why [snip]

The first rule of talking to Erik is you don't try to make sense of what he says

[Jackard]

Uh, explain why [snip]

The first rule of talking to Erik is you don't try to make sense of what he says

"hey lets make roads decay superfast"
"dude that would be totally annoying"
"REALISM"
"its not even realistic wtf are you talking about"
"you agreed with me the entire time" *handwave*

[Potjeh]

I must say I really hate the idea of destroyable claims. Having your steel stolen is manageable. Having your whole damn farm stolen isn't. However, it needs to be possible to reoccupy abandoned buildings that are under an inactive claim. As you can't claim over a claim, inactive claims would need to expire. So yeah, I'm sticking with my guns here.

[niltrias]

I must say I really hate the idea of destroyable claims. Having your steel stolen is manageable. Having your whole damn farm stolen isn't. However, it needs to be possible to reoccupy abandoned buildings that are under an inactive claim. As you can't claim over a claim, inactive claims would need to expire. So yeah, I'm sticking with my guns here.

And I am backing Potjeh up. There are still many claims and many Hearths that are effectively abandoned, but causing the Civ map to show green over a lot of the map.

What if (assuming decay is extended to houses) claims persist as long as there are built items within them? And when the built items have all disappeared, then the claim starts to decay and eventually fails? So If you maintain your house, goods, and walls, and build a lot of them, a claim could persist for a long time...but if a player tosses a claim over a forest and quits, the claim would disappear more quickly?