Debate about RMT in Haven and Hearth

[DatOneGuy]

do you really think drawing a line to which objects for "unfairness" would suffice? i doubt it.

now listen, i am even more frustrated to see that such players with recognitions on the forums, including you, keyn_thror, kLauE have been making all these posts, encouraging RMT whatever each intention is/was.

For some people whether it's because they are young (please don't be discriminatory against age when making your arguments it's in poor taste), unable to find a job, unable to make money, enjoys making extra money by spending 2 fucking minutes in game, or whatever it is, that's between them and who they sell to.

thats a total bullshit to me.

If you are arguing that it is a bad thing, what makes it bad, why should it be outlawed. Just like custom clients, is it that wrong? If we didn't have custom clients we'd be using 800x600 and I'm sure damn near no one would be playing. Now past the idea of whether it's wrong or not is whether or not it can be policed, it can't, we'll take it to a fansite that will accept it.

Bullshit? What's bullshit? I'm too lazy to write a bot to make me money, and even if I did these people aren't willing to spend hundreds or thousands of dollars on the games (one's I have met so far), however they will buy some stuff because they're not above that. Now I don't mind getting rid of edels when I have too many, or hell going out and checking a mountain for 20 minutes half-afk while writing some scripts or some other such to make $1 or so and not mind doing so.
Can it be taken to the max? Sure, everything can.

Still not exactly seeing what's so immoral about it.

[Tonkyhonk]

If you are arguing that it is a bad thing, what makes it bad, why should it be outlawed. Just like custom clients, is it that wrong? If we didn't have custom clients we'd be using 800x600 and I'm sure damn near no one would be playing. Now past the idea of whether it's wrong or not is whether or not it can be policed, it can't, we'll take it to a fansite that will accept it.

Bullshit? What's bullshit? I'm too lazy to write a bot to make me money, and even if I did these people aren't willing to spend hundreds or thousands of dollars on the games (one's I have met so far), however they will buy some stuff because they're not above that. Now I don't mind getting rid of edels when I have too many, or hell going out and checking a mountain for 20 minutes half-afk while writing some scripts or some other such to make $1 or so and not mind doing so.
Can it be taken to the max? Sure, everything can.

Still not exactly seeing what's so immoral about it.

botting, custom clients, bug-using (with reports) is one thing.
encouraging RMT and bug-abusing without reporting is another.
that is my line between testing/enjoying the shared game and taking unfair advantages of it, if that makes any sense to you.
i have talked (or read) enough with loftar on his idea about botting, clients and bugs, and drew my own line.
no, i havent heard of devs opinions on RMT, yet. so my line is of course not perfect, its only there to satisfy myself to enjoy this game.
if you really cant see why its bad already, you wont see it for now even if i explain, cba to waste time.

[DatOneGuy]

If you are arguing that it is a bad thing, what makes it bad, why should it be outlawed. Just like custom clients, is it that wrong? If we didn't have custom clients we'd be using 800x600 and I'm sure damn near no one would be playing. Now past the idea of whether it's wrong or not is whether or not it can be policed, it can't, we'll take it to a fansite that will accept it.

Bullshit? What's bullshit? I'm too lazy to write a bot to make me money, and even if I did these people aren't willing to spend hundreds or thousands of dollars on the games (one's I have met so far), however they will buy some stuff because they're not above that. Now I don't mind getting rid of edels when I have too many, or hell going out and checking a mountain for 20 minutes half-afk while writing some scripts or some other such to make $1 or so and not mind doing so.
Can it be taken to the max? Sure, everything can.

Still not exactly seeing what's so immoral about it.

botting, custom clients, bug-using (with reports) is one thing.
encouraging RMT and bug-abusing without reporting is another.
that is my line between testing/enjoying the shared game and taking unfair advantages of it, if that makes any sense to you.
i have talked (or read) enough with loftar on his idea about botting, clients and bugs, and drew my own line.
no, i havent heard of devs opinions on RMT, yet. so my line is of course not perfect, its only there to satisfy myself to enjoy this game.
if you really cant see why its bad already, you wont see it for now even if i explain, cba to waste time.

What makes this advantage 'unfair'.

I could understand why one looking at it at first glance might find it unfair, you are allowing an outside currency to be used to purchase items without being subject to game mechanic changes so that if it becomes unfair, or is unfair, nothing can be done to stop it.

I'd just like an actual explanation as to why, you can't exactly argue against 'it's unfair!' or 'it's bad already, you wont see it for now even if i explain'. I've been on the bad end of it, and it's been bad in many MMOs, but in HnH? It already has a lot of interesting mechanics that make it a bit harder to do this.

Buying curios:
1)Need to wait out the whole time for curios either way
2)LP isn't exactly worth much just alone

Buying weapons/items:
1)Still need curios to be worth it
2)If you go nuts you will die and lose your items anyway

Basically the worst thing you could sell is probably knowledge or a place in your village, selling curios/items won't get someone too far.

[rozn]

If you are arguing that it is a bad thing, what makes it bad, why should it be outlawed. Just like custom clients, is it that wrong? If we didn't have custom clients we'd be using 800x600 and I'm sure damn near no one would be playing. Now past the idea of whether it's wrong or not is whether or not it can be policed, it can't, we'll take it to a fansite that will accept it.

Bullshit? What's bullshit? I'm too lazy to write a bot to make me money, and even if I did these people aren't willing to spend hundreds or thousands of dollars on the games (one's I have met so far), however they will buy some stuff because they're not above that. Now I don't mind getting rid of edels when I have too many, or hell going out and checking a mountain for 20 minutes half-afk while writing some scripts or some other such to make $1 or so and not mind doing so.
Can it be taken to the max? Sure, everything can.

Still not exactly seeing what's so immoral about it.

botting, custom clients, bug-using (with reports) is one thing.
encouraging RMT and bug-abusing without reporting is another.
that is my line between testing/enjoying the shared game and taking unfair advantages of it, if that makes any sense to you.
i have talked (or read) enough with loftar on his idea about botting, clients and bugs, and drew my own line.
no, i havent heard of devs opinions on RMT, yet. so my line is of course not perfect, its only there to satisfy myself to enjoy this game.
if you really cant see why its bad already, you wont see it for now even if i explain, cba to waste time.

What makes this advantage 'unfair'.

I could understand why one looking at it at first glance might find it unfair, you are allowing an outside currency to be used to purchase items without being subject to game mechanic changes so that if it becomes unfair, or is unfair, nothing can be done to stop it.

I'd just like an actual explanation as to why, you can't exactly argue against 'it's unfair!' or 'it's bad already, you wont see it for now even if i explain'. I've been on the bad end of it, and it's been bad in many MMOs, but in HnH? It already has a lot of interesting mechanics that make it a bit harder to do this.

Buying curios:
1)Need to wait out the whole time for curios either way
2)LP isn't exactly worth much just alone

Buying weapons/items:
1)Still need curios to be worth it
2)If you go nuts you will die and lose your items anyway

Basically the worst thing you could sell is probably knowledge or a place in your village, selling curios/items won't get someone too far.

There are also more rare curios and higher q curios. Sure study time is the same but someone with q70 edel will benefit more then someone with a q25. Shocked frogs are rare and if you buy them, yes you do wait for them but you wait 12h and its one of the best ( if not best) curios in the game. I got over 56k from a prince charming. I doubt that everyone has access to these. You have to factor in q and rarity of the curios too.

[DatOneGuy]

The only two curios you can't usually get that are 'the best' are pearls and troll skulls. I doubt someone would sell a skull for under $15, and pearls current price I've seen is $1~2. Assuming a pearl an hour that's $24/day to keep pearl stocked, but it would make a big difference in LP for sure.

[Tonkyhonk]

I could understand why one looking at it at first glance might find it unfair, you are allowing an outside currency to be used to purchase items without being subject to game mechanic changes so that if it becomes unfair, or is unfair, nothing can be done to stop it.

I'd just like an actual explanation as to why, you can't exactly argue against 'it's unfair!' or 'it's bad already, you wont see it for now even if i explain'. I've been on the bad end of it, and it's been bad in many MMOs, but in HnH? It already has a lot of interesting mechanics that make it a bit harder to do this.

Buying curios:
1)Need to wait out the whole time for curios either way
2)LP isn't exactly worth much just alone

Buying weapons/items:
1)Still need curios to be worth it
2)If you go nuts you will die and lose your items anyway

Basically the worst thing you could sell is probably knowledge or a place in your village, selling curios/items won't get someone too far.

who is going to police around what should be accepted and what not on every single object in game or knowledge or whatever? are you going to check every player if what they are trading for real money is legitimate or not? and do you expect them to be completely honest about what they are buying/selling?

letting the community discourage the whole RMT transactions altogether be much easier for both devs and players imo.
when you officially allow one, people will go for the next one. and then the next and the next. there is no end to it.

why i draw a line on bug-uses with reported or not reported is because we all know there are some minor bugs that devs dont bother fixing and allow players continue using them, and reported or not is clear enough to avoid grey zones.
(that is why im not blaming bell and qant for cs bug-use this time on that thread, although the reason of not getting it fixed would be hopefully different from devs not bothering, and i do hope we can find a solution to that very soon. btw, the very same reason why i did not blame pande for bug-using the last time while blaming russians for server-crashing bug which was not reported. but probably thats just me.)

[Potjeh]

You'd have to be borderline retarded to sell a pearl for 1$. You can get a lot more money if you spend the time it takes to get a pearl mowing lawns and delivering newspapers.

[brohammed]

RMT goes around the game mechanics.

[Lumar]

You'd have to be borderline retarded to sell a pearl for 1$. You can get a lot more money if you spend the time it takes to get a pearl mowing lawns and delivering newspapers.

But you can mow lawns and then turn around and make money when you are playing a game. some people are harvesting and selling pearls just to buy other items in game, why not turn what they are already doing into making hard cash, then they can atleast buy more dr pepper and cheetos to support their gaming habit

[rye130]

You'd have to be borderline retarded to sell a pearl for 1$. You can get a lot more money if you spend the time it takes to get a pearl mowing lawns and delivering newspapers.

Which is more fun though? I can hunt pearls and curios when I want in my free time for as long as I want. I'm not committed to anything, I can take breaks, do what I want.