Okay, Shockedfrog, We Can Take The Trees But...

[Jojaty]

Wrong. That's greek mythology.

It was the Titan that gave the humans fire that got chained underground to have his liver pecked out every day.

The Titan Prometheus.

[Errol]

He was not chained underground, but to some big mountain.

[niltrias]

I like shockedfrog.
Ive been thinking this over ever since the apple tree attack (some might have noted my lengthy posts elsewhere in the forums, and the lack thereof in shockedfrog-based forums.) and my final conclusion is:

I like shockedfrog.

I say this as the founding member of Bottleneck. Before you all run me out of town, please consider my two reasons:

1) This is an alpha. The developers need info on conflict in order to develop a good system for non-friendly interaction, and the current anything-but friendly interaction between shockedfrog and bottleneck is a perfect example for them to use to make this game even better. We lost a few steel. I know that sucks, but crashes have cost us a lot more. Probably there will be a map restart (hopefully with more water) and we may well lose all of bottleneck...even our characters. But the GAME will get better. And some part of that improvement will come from shockedfrogs attacks on us. So, shockedfrog is, with us, making the game better for ALL of us.

2) Losing is fun. Who here from B12 turns down a site because there is possible conflict with goblins? Personally, I turn down sites with NO goblin contact, because it is boring. We have nasty foxes and boar and the occasional bear in Bottleneck, but they are not hard to trap and kill. What we need to make the game more enjoyable is a worthy adversary. And shockedfrog gives us that. There is only one shocked frog, and over 15 of us just from my kin list alone. I mean, come on. Who builds their food stockpile out in the middle of the forest and then gets mad at DF because the monkeys ate it? We screwed up by making the forges so easy to attack, even though we had a professed enemy out there who had already tried to starve us out. I think shockedfrog makes the game more challenging, and hence more fun, for all of us.

That said, I will also add that my affection for shockedfrog will in no way impair me from filling their butt with arrows if i get the chance. I spent 10,000 LP on the murder skill just FOR shockedfrog.
I would like to have the chance to use those LPs very very much

[kimya]

youre probably already using fires to prevent griefing?
dunno have just seen it at laketown and its quite intelligent...

anyways, i dont really unterstand all the fuss about his actions. this game lets you do pretty much whatever you like. that is what makes it so great. so instead of crying around in the forums, solve your problem in-game.
there was once this girl running around, stealing one of my two chests. i followed her (didnt have enough time to get my bow) some time, when she suddenly dropped the chest and ran off. i took my chest and carried it back, when i realised she had stolen my second chest. all of a sudden, she was there, building a drying frame in front of my door and running away again. my first chest was in the cabin i couldnt ever enter again. i equipped my bow, followed her and shot her down - while she was carrying my other chest. you probably know the bug. my chest was gone as she logged out. both chests lost i went back to my cabin. that girl was a pain in the ass. whatever.
i claimed some land besides my cabin and went on enjoying the game.

just be creative.

love,
kimya

[niltrias]

youre probably already using fires to prevent griefing?
dunno have just seen it at laketown and its quite intelligent...

anyways, i dont really unterstand all the fuss about his actions. this game lets you do pretty much whatever you like. that is what makes it so great. so instead of crying around in the forums, solve your problem in-game.
there was once this girl running around, stealing one of my two chests. i followed her (didnt have enough time to get my bow) some time, when she suddenly dropped the chest and ran off. i took my chest and carried it back, when i realised she had stolen my second chest. all of a sudden, she was there, building a drying frame in front of my door and running away again. my first chest was in the cabin i couldnt ever enter again. i equipped my bow, followed her and shot her down - while she was carrying my other chest. you probably know the bug. my chest was gone as she logged out. both chests lost i went back to my cabin. that girl was a pain in the ass. whatever.
i claimed some land besides my cabin and went on enjoying the game.

just be creative.

love,
kimya

Nope. How do fires prevent griefing?

[Rift]

shes referring to our double circle of fires around our steel crucibles, with a little enterance that is blocked by only a single fire
None of them are lit.. and you cant move fires, so its impossible to get there.
The only possible way to get to our steel crucibles is to light the fires and wait until they burn out. at the shortest point [the enterance] thats one fire, so it will take you 20 minutes to get in. We have enough people around that it could not go unchecked for 20 minutes... thus.. it would be difficult to take any of our steel. No doubt me saying this will get people to attempt to.. But be warned some of us have the murder skill :p

...and yes that means we too have to wait 20 minutes to get in... its not perfect but were willing to put a bit of time into trying to keep our steel safe.

...plus we have 2 very dedicated miners/smithers so they are around a great deal of the time directly watching/working with the mine.


>.< please don't try and steal from us now out of some sort of search for a challange.

[shockedfrog]

I look forward to the day when conflict with B12 is no longer necessary, because it is becoming unfair to those who do have some respect for things, not that I expect anyone to see me as awesome but simply respecting my rights as a player, recognising where there's hypocrisy, not falling for the lies, and just generally keeping things fun, not taking them too far. There are a number of those players, and I'd happily work together with them, something I think they'd probably find quite helpful too.

However, even if my previous actions could be forgiven, the other people make that impossible. While most are just resorting to slander, there are those such as Devour, who has chosen to block off my land. Fortunately, that was my old land and does not affect me, but the fact that he has not unclaimed the spot shows his intent, deliberately attempting to block me from being able to play the game to any reasonable extent. Yet, a number of people have shown support for his actions, while I get comdemned for doing that accidentally. In any other situation I'm sure many of you would recognise him as a genuine griefer, but for some reason it becomes ok because it's revenge for something comparatively minor and because enough people think it's funny? I understand and to some extent respect community loyalty, but don't let it blind you to the truth about people.

Though this whole thing is making me sick and stuff like the B12 ban is starting to affect my life outside of the game, I intend to continue because giving up now is only going to make things worse for me. I do see some vague signs of improvement anyway, but I believe the true resolution to all this will come when the game's natural community expands. When (if) that actually will happen, though, I currently have no idea.

BTW, since I've been too busy dealing with the idiots outside of the game to actually get the chance to play it, I haven't seen this fire system, but that does sound quite smart. That's the kind of thing I'd like to see more of, the lack of that kind of creativity so far is probably one of my biggest disappointments considering all the DF players involved here.

[Vattic]

I agree it will be nice when this is just a memory but your post, well...

Forgiveness, we granted you forgiveness when you pleaded ignorance after you first chopped trees down in Bottleneck now you ask for more forgiveness. I cant see that happening, not while you continue to threaten us and have made it clear that without some kind of incentive you will not stop harassing those at Bottleneck. It was those threats that got you banned from the Bay12 site.

As for the claiming of your land, according to you it has had no effect on your hearthlings life so I wonder why those who did it should make the long trek there to remove their claim? Oh and you said that you were not a greifer because your actions gave you some benefit, but surely given your threats locking you up would be great benefit to Bottleneck.

I'm not sure what lies, hypocrisy, slander or rights you are referring to but I would like to know. You claim you did this as a form of RP yet when we RP an angry village you seem to take offence and start talking about your rights? If you can act how you want in the game anyone can, taking that to an extreme why be civil with you?

[Devour]

<snip>

Oh, I get it, now YOU'RE the victim. Honestly, and you were complaining about spin?

[shockedfrog]

Vattic, I am not sure exactly who 'we' is, but there are those who did not forgive and it would have to be unanimous for it to be as important as you seem to think it was. Also, it should be pointed out that the forgiveness I asked for at that time was forgiveness for the decision to use an alt, not forgiveness for the action I actually took which would have been perfectly reasonable on my main. I did not ask for forgiveness in my previous post, I mentioned forgiveness while saying that even if it was realistically possible there would still be issues. I have also, several times, clarified that the use of 'RP' here is not as straightforward as the use you refer to. People failing to actually read what I write is a great part of the problem.

As for the not a griefer comment, that has been taken out of context. It was clearly intended to challenge someone else's definition of griefing.

Deliberately attempting to block off someone's access to the game goes beyond reasonable gameplay. The fact that he did not succeed does not mean he should not apologize for his action, and/or take the time to undo it.