Hearth vaults.

[Treetheater]

Hello fellow haveners, i'd like to get a discussion going on something I personally feel is contributing to negative factors in this game. Hearth vaults. Now, Ive never used one, or been in one, but from what I can decipher, its basically a way to play the game like a little bitch. I don't know the logistics of moving a hearth in between these vaults, assuming it's done with crossroads or something, but honestly, SOMETHING needs to be done about these.

Being someone who plays the game with a partner, and only him, I find it impossible to imagine us building a brickwalled fortress just to hide our sorry ass hearthfires, let alone multiple vaults to really exploit the games features. Having said this, I'd feel its fair to assume that most either low level players, or people who play in small numbers, don't use hearth vaults, and I also assume the opposite, more-so with high level players than any village member, but you get the idea. I feel they have massively increased the rift between low and high level players, almost to the point of segregation. I understand the reasoning is to protect high level players from OTHER high level players, but honestly, there has to be a better, and more legitimate way of doing this. From what I understand, breaking into a vault isn't exactly easy, and as soon as they know you're coming, they just move to a different one.

I will admit, multiple, heavily defended fortresses to warp between and hide in, DOES sound incredibly badass...On paper. And only if you have it And this, of course, isn't the case. I see at LEAST one hearth vault per river system now, and every time, my thought processes are the exact same. "Look what we got here...God damn this place is ugly...Never gonna be able to do anything about this, might as well move on. Oh well". Maybe it's just me, being low leveled and all, but I don't think these are any more appreciated by the high level characters who have to deal with these assholes personally. Ranging seems to have gone from the cat chasing the mouse, to the cat knocking on the mouses door, the mouse calmy getting out of his chair (fuck you mouses can sit) and magically disappearing.

To me, it boils down to these 2 standpoints when it comes to hearth vaults...
"I don't have the materials, manpower, or desire for a hearth vault. I am fucked"
"I have one; Fuck you"

Shouldn't "I have a brickwall, fuck you" be enough? I guess not. The inherent problem with asking for these removed, is that they're technically fair. Anyone CAN build one, and if you don't have one, 'its your own fault'. But really, I think they are just too much work to ask of every player who wants to enjoy the game to it's full potential. Their necessity grows with every new one built, and I don't ever, EVER, see it stopping naturally.


That's pretty much my rant, feel free to call me a faggot, 2nd poster. I know you will, especially after reading this sentence.
Would anybody be so kind as to further explain these horrid things to me? Like I said, I only have a vague understanding of them.

[Potjeh]

95% of the community (myself included) thinks that hearth vaults are lame and need to die, the only problem is how do we kill them?

[Treetheater]

95% of the community (myself included) thinks that hearth vaults are lame and need to die, the only problem is how do we kill them?

Well I'm relieved to see I'm in the majority here. Maybe I won't get called a faggot


I wondered this myself as I was typing this out. I figured that should be jorbs problem, not mine

But, yeah, aside from the devs manually removing every vault, which is far, far, far from ideal, I don't really see how they can be stopped. The only thing that strikes me instantly is something being changed with the way teleporting works.

edit- Perhaps some sort of timer on placing another hearth fire after warping certain distances. The longer the distance, the longer the timer. This isn't exactly fair to everyone, but It'd be one way to stop them, and gradually have them all broken into in the process, seeing as the perps could no longer move their hearth in time. This is of course, if they work the way I understand them to.

[Phizuol]

If someone makes it to your walls with a fresh scent and you can't break the ram within 24 hours you should be fucked, IMO. Whatever they can do to make that happen works for me.

[Potjeh]

and you can't break the ram within 24 hours

This is the tricky part. How do you do this so vaults are nerfed but all the legit villages don't get torched down?

[General-GSP]

and you can't break the ram within 24 hours

This is the tricky part. How do you do this so vaults are nerfed but all the legit villages don't get torched down?

This !
As a "bad guy" I jump from one vault to another almost daily. My crew spent the first 2 months building our network.
Why?
because anything done to make vaults less secure makes villages less secure . anything done to make villages more secure makes vaults more also.
World 3 we had wall jumping via CR's (before you go and get pissy) but this was EASILY defended against. a row of statues outside your wall (or banners) and potential raiders would have to build 10's of thousands of sign posts. (and if you havn't tried it do so it takes a shit ton of work. we spent 12 hrs making 20,000 signs to raid a vault once.
Anyway my point is. To make vaults less secure and keep villages more secure we actually need a "legal" wall jump but something that can be defended agaist to the point where a ram is the better way to breech the wall.
this will not completely fix the problem but it should eliminate the small vaults only leaving behind the big well defended ones held by big organized factions.

OR. another siege system all together.....

Question for everyone...: Should you be ABLE to breech someones wall in less than 24 hrs?

alright flame on...

[Kaios]

Question for everyone...: Should you be ABLE to breech someones wall in less than 24 hrs?

Perhaps not but you for sure shouldn't have to sit on the ram for that entire 24 hours just to break in to see that the perpetrators have moved their hearthfires.

[Phizuol]

This is the tricky part. How do you do this so vaults are nerfed but all the legit villages don't get torched down?

I think that's already the reality of the situation for most villages today. That's assuming "most" villages aren't double walled and the like. If you're not patrolling the walls or are facing someone that is able to babysit their ram then you'll be torched down. I guess really in all cases a superior force can torch a village eventually. In contrast you have vaults where the occupant can escape before the ram is dry or, in an extreme case, have enough layers of wall that a murder scent would expire before the hearth could be reached.

Yeah, I think I see your point though, care must be taken so that people don't need to go to extreme lengths just to protect a modest village against an inferior force of raiders. You're right, that's the tricky part. I wouldn't like to see brickbreakers again.

OP seems to suggest a way to prevent moving the hearth so easily. That might be a good start. Maybe another solution could be to refresh the duration of scents if you move your HF so you can run but not hide. Not really a solution I guess, but makes life harder for the criminal.

[Potjeh]

Well you think wrong. Single brickwall is enough to make a moderately active and half-competent village completely unassailable.

Forcing hearths to stay in one vault is all well and good, but it still doesn't help when the ram will never live long enough to dry.

[Windforce]

Just make HFs hidden in houses summonable if you cn see that house. This will force ppl to build (more effort) to build bigger and bigger vaults. (More Effort to Build and lost when breeched as oppsed to simple cheap brick vaults)