Support Oriented PVP Toon- Is it possible?

[BooBooLaBoosh_]

Pretty much just as the topic says, is it possible to make a character that works on the support skills (all 2 of them) of combat?
By possible I mean if it can actually be useful and not be a waste of a soldier.

Would spamming Stern Order and To Arms (along with call down the thunder and combat meditation, and maybe some moves that dont depend on charisma like Throw Sand or things) really be able to hold its own weight in a team fight?

Of course the FEP diet would end up being based on charisma and maybe agility for the faster moves, but is it possible?

NOTE: I dont agree with any of this said, Im just asking is it possible and a worth effort to a team.

[AnnaC]

A "support oriented pvp toon" is the recon hearthling tanking the majority of the enemy party while his comrades either withdraw or reinforce.

[rye130]

I think it could work, only problem is when it gets targeted and killed.

[BooBooLaBoosh_]

I think it could work, only problem is when it gets targeted and killed.

Thats what I thought too, maybe he'd make sure to stay from range and/or on a boat? There would obviously have to be someone intercepting attacks on him,
its not like he shouldnt raise ua for defense anyway though.

[rye130]

I guess it wouldn't take much of an investment to make a support toon anyways. But thinking about it now, not sure what sort of advantage it would give you when a lot of the combat now doesnt seem to be standing and fighting/building up ip and advantage and whatnot.

[BruThoL]

Well it could be in use.
Having a toon using moves on a combat char would help this with his maneuvers.
I'd add constitution to the main attributes. And a solid armor set.

And very low agility so when someone of your group need to raise up its attack or def bar, he can simply flex on the toon.

So I would not play it to act on the ennemy but more to act on your own team as a maneuver trigger, and def/attack helper.

Also, a good not mentionned move would be Evil Eye. Sounds perfect on a support.

[bmjclark]

It kind of loses it's viability as people start to wear merchant robes since all the moves go off sqrts of charisma (don't know the actual formula for it off the top of my head).

[Valten21]

It's the same as delta for maneuvers, square root of your charisma devided by your targets. If your target has 100 charisma, you need 900 to get 3 coins, or 3 points of advantage from to arms/stern order. Using 100 because this is easily achievable with a merchant robe, pair of thanes, and beartooth tali.. 400 for 2, which is reasonable, but still quite a bit of work. And on the extreme end of things, 2500 vs 100 to get 5 coins/full advantage. Remember stern order takes 5 IP from everyone in the party. That just helps put things into perspective, it takes a lot of charisma, and for you to only hope your target has gained none for it to be reasonable. You also have to think if it's worth taking another str/cons/agi UA fighter away from your team. Even if it has it's merits, is it worth the loss of another fighter?

[DatOneGuy]

Theoretically yes, but it takes the type of coordination that I have yet to see from any group in HnH.

The way I've always seen it the only thing you need to add is CHA (unless this was changed, doubt it due to Salem), which is ridiculously easy to increase once you have cheese.

Basically all you need is a fighter who instead of going insane amounts of STR adds a decent amount of CHA first, if you have a good cheese layout this isn't a problem since CHA cheeses are some of the easiest to eat and you can get to around 800 on 1Harmesan/CHA, can continue using Harmesan until around 1,500? Probably more who knows if you keep the quality good, then switch out to Stilton reserves. Should be easy to keep CHA in check with your STR, several people have done it, but when you don't have a 'great' army, you don't exactly want one person sitting in the back using support skills, you want more person fighting.

It's the same as delta for maneuvers, square root of your charisma devided by your targets. If your target has 100 charisma, you need 900 to get 3 coins, or 3 points of advantage from to arms/stern order. Using 100 because this is easily achievable with a merchant robe, pair of thanes, and beartooth tali.. 400 for 2, which is reasonable, but still quite a bit of work. And on the extreme end of things, 2500 vs 100 to get 5 coins/full advantage. Remember stern order takes 5 IP from everyone in the party. That just helps put things into perspective, it takes a lot of charisma, and for you to only hope your target has gained none for it to be reasonable. You also have to think if it's worth taking another str/cons/agi UA fighter away from your team. Even if it has it's merits, is it worth the loss of another fighter?

This is where the problem comes into play, it's a very long term choice because you need so many IP for it to be worth a shit. Stern Order is absolute shit because it takes 5 IP from every single person. When people didn't care about CHA at all and your average person was stupid enough to have under 50, this would be a lot easier. As the average person would start to have more towards a minimum of 100 in gear and 100 in stats, you would need a ridiculous amount to benefit from this. I'm not great in combat so I can't say whether the Combat Advantage it gives will be worth it, but from what I recall getting 5 Combat Advantage is god tier, so it just very could make the difference between them duking it out and just raping that person. It's also only really a good skill if a good deal of people are going after one person, you want to mark them to be taken down fast, if it's 1v1's everywhere it quickly becomes useless as everyone gains that Advantage versus a single target.

IIRC (Could be wrong, I remember mixed reports between these two) that To Arms! possibly only requires IP from the leader (person using it, and not the others), could be wrong. If only the leader, it begins to be worth it even at lower levels (2IP, or 3IP per person, and getting better each time), if from each person (I'd have to go check the guide I had kept somewhere for this...), then you'd need at least around 1,000 CHA to get 3IP off of that person.

Again though these skills only matter at all if you have enough people attacking a single person, if it's for example 15v15, and you have 5 of your guys on 1 guy you have to ask yourself a few things:
1)How quick are they going to take that guy down, assuming everyone there has similar stats, why bother, he'll be dead soon either way probably
2)If that guy is much stronger a 'titan' if you will, it's probably worth it.
3)Is that guy really good in combat, in this case you should also consider it if this person is known for being able to do crazy combat stuff, go for it either way.

You want to be a bit safe away too when doing this which is another common annoyance. Personally I always found these skills to be best tossed on an archer that has enough UA to defend himself, since archers just need PER you don't have to worry about STR raising how fast you need to push that CHA, you're going to be far away anyway, and you can use thunder between shots as fuel for it.

I'm sure given how the skills work like thunder (but thunder would be a stupid slow way to get IP), someone could think of a better way to get the IP fast while being decently safe and getting out of there when working in groups, if anyone with real combat experience would elaborate further on the matter.

Sorry for any erroneous information on To Arms and Stern Order, it's late and I don't really have all the stuff here in front of me. It was however my goal to do exactly this for a long time, to be back up and not 'main fighter' type of guy, so I did a lot of information gathering on these sorts of things, and the leadership skills always interested me the most, just weren't strong enough to work without a lot of preparation, months, perhaps over a year's worth.

[saltmummy626]

upon reading this thread, the only image I kept getting was of two guys duking it out, then some other, smaller, guy running up and mashing a big ol dirt clod into one of the combatants eyes, then running away. It sounds pluasable to me, but im not expert on combat.