by Xcom » Wed Feb 05, 2014 7:43 am The secrets of Numen
Although the numen window is plain in the open for all to see, not many have ever attempted to open its secrets and explored its depth. The secrets it holds have been kept from all but the few as it holds powers untold to the commoners.
Numen explained
- - - 
Above you can see the numen shrine. Every player can make there own shrine for sacrificing items into. The shrine is tied to each individual player and only the owner can use it. After building the shrine the owner can sacrifice Items into it simply by picking up an item then right clicking the shrine. But only the items listed in the numen window can be sacrificed. You can not sacrifice items that are not displayed. The other important key feature to note is how vital it is to not destroy the shrine as on destruction it reduces the numen count down to 1/4 of its value.
The numen window displays the numen items that the ancestors are asking for. These items show up randomly and only these items can be sacrificed. It is also not possible to get a new fresh set of numen items unless you sacrifice one of the items displayed. When sacrificing one of the items displayed a new set of 3 items are asked for. It is also possible to forfeit if the listed items are unavailable but this will reduce the numen count displayed down to 1/2. The last thing to note is the numen count. When sacrificing items the numen count increases based on the tradition or change slider of the character. A full tradition character gains +3 numen while a character with full change gains only +1 numen.
Other key features to note is that only the most left item gives numen points. If you sacrifice items found in the middle or the right you will never gain any numen points. You will also not gain any numen if you sacrifice items with lower quality then the numen count you have regardless if its on the left slot or not. The last important information to know is that there is a 25% chance to lose -1 numen point when sacrificing items with lower quality then the numen count regardless of if its the left, middle or right item.
To summerise the numen mechanics in short. All the numen items that shows up in any slot are always random and its always 3 items. The left slot is used to gain numen, the middle and right slot is only there if the left most slot item is not available or is lower quality then the numen count. The aim is to keep sacrificing items so an item in the left slot shows up that is available and is higher then the numen count. If all the items that show up are unavailable you either have to acquire one of the 3 items asked for or you are forced to forfeit. The middle and right slot items are basically only there for you to not be forced to forfeit. The aim is also to always attempt to sacrifice items higher then the numen count or there is a 25% chance to lose -1 numen. Using this technique you can sacrifice items over and over until you reach a peek numen count based on the average of items you have around your base.
The numen count can then be used in the prayer. There exists 5 types of prayers:
A Prayer of Bread - Giving a piece of bread costing 5 numen points.
A Prayer of Light - Making your character glow in the dark (similar to a torch).
Prayer of a Lost Child - Giving you a map of the area (not sure how this one works).
Prayer for Strength - Giving you the stats of your dead characters.
But this is the interesting prayer as its key in understanding why numen is so important.
Forge Prayer - Giving you a piece of nugget of the same quality as the numen point.
The soft capping mechanics are still unknown to how exactly they work but we suspect its the direct ancestors strength and smithing. Another key feature to is that it only costs you 10 points. This means you can reach ridiculous numen points, when your numen points levels out you can start extracting nuggets. Often it takes no longer then 5-6 months before the world is old enough to out quality anything found in the mines. You simply extract nuggets then sacrifice another 10 points and extract again and again.
Just to note numen truly ruins the quality mechanics in this game from all standpoints. You can simply outnumen spiraled metal, troll kilns, trade or any other method of attempting to raise quality. Greatest exploit of haven as of this date and kept secret from most players.
- - - Above you can see the numen shrine. Every player can make there own shrine for sacrificing items into. The shrine is tied to each individual player and only the owner can use it. After building the shrine the owner can sacrifice Items into it simply by picking up an item then right clicking the shrine. But only the items listed in the numen window can be sacrificed. You can not sacrifice items that are not displayed. The other important key feature to note is how vital it is to not destroy the shrine as on destruction it reduces the numen count down to 1/4 of its value.
The numen window displays the numen items that the ancestors are asking for. These items show up randomly and only these items can be sacrificed. It is also not possible to get a new fresh set of numen items unless you sacrifice one of the items displayed. When sacrificing one of the items displayed a new set of 3 items are asked for. It is also possible to forfeit if the listed items are unavailable but this will reduce the numen count displayed down to 1/2. The last thing to note is the numen count. When sacrificing items the numen count increases based on the tradition or change slider of the character. A full tradition character gains +3 numen while a character with full change gains only +1 numen.
Other key features to note is that only the most left item gives numen points. If you sacrifice items found in the middle or the right you will never gain any numen points. You will also not gain any numen if you sacrifice items with lower quality then the numen count you have regardless if its on the left slot or not. The last important information to know is that there is a 25% chance to lose -1 numen point when sacrificing items with lower quality then the numen count regardless of if its the left, middle or right item.
To summerise the numen mechanics in short. All the numen items that shows up in any slot are always random and its always 3 items. The left slot is used to gain numen, the middle and right slot is only there if the left most slot item is not available or is lower quality then the numen count. The aim is to keep sacrificing items so an item in the left slot shows up that is available and is higher then the numen count. If all the items that show up are unavailable you either have to acquire one of the 3 items asked for or you are forced to forfeit. The middle and right slot items are basically only there for you to not be forced to forfeit. The aim is also to always attempt to sacrifice items higher then the numen count or there is a 25% chance to lose -1 numen. Using this technique you can sacrifice items over and over until you reach a peek numen count based on the average of items you have around your base.
The numen count can then be used in the prayer. There exists 5 types of prayers:
A Prayer of Bread - Giving a piece of bread costing 5 numen points.
A Prayer of Light - Making your character glow in the dark (similar to a torch).
Prayer of a Lost Child - Giving you a map of the area (not sure how this one works).
Prayer for Strength - Giving you the stats of your dead characters.
But this is the interesting prayer as its key in understanding why numen is so important.
Forge Prayer - Giving you a piece of nugget of the same quality as the numen point.
The soft capping mechanics are still unknown to how exactly they work but we suspect its the direct ancestors strength and smithing. Another key feature to is that it only costs you 10 points. This means you can reach ridiculous numen points, when your numen points levels out you can start extracting nuggets. Often it takes no longer then 5-6 months before the world is old enough to out quality anything found in the mines. You simply extract nuggets then sacrifice another 10 points and extract again and again.
Just to note numen truly ruins the quality mechanics in this game from all standpoints. You can simply outnumen spiraled metal, troll kilns, trade or any other method of attempting to raise quality. Greatest exploit of haven as of this date and kept secret from most players.
History of Numen Zero
For those who truly are interested in the history and back story of this great endeavor.
Brief history
This is my personal vantage point of this story. You can simply choose to believe what I have to tell you as some might not be fully accurate and some of it might be fiction.
It all began in world 6 in the thickest of lags, this was sometime after I had joined Emerald City as a satellite and Matti had joined up with me living in the semi larger base found somewhere in the western part of the map. I was in the middle of the Maze project and Matti was attempting to finalize the automated curio system. I was telling Matti that we needed better metal curios and our discussions went on about the quality of our anvil and hammer. I had previously told him about a mechanic uncharted called numen and we both had disagreed about its worth. To him it seamed to be to random and convoluted. He was more convinced about making higher quality smelters and try out spiraling. As for me it was to much work picking up another project while I was in middle of the maze construction. We both dismissed it and time passed by.
Months went on till I had started to finalize the maze and the discussions about metals had sprung up in the Emerald City chats. I had yet again brought up the discussions about how it might be possible making extreme metals from numen. Again with alot of dismissal alot of questions regarding how risky it might be to be forced to sacrifice items and how much this numen sounded like voodoo then spiraling. I had explained that it was risky but it was worth an attempt to see how this mechanic worked. Although I was just about finished with maze I had no time at all attempting something new and was telling people in Emerald City chat that this was going to become my new project ones I was finished with the maze and how I needed there aid when the time was right.
It wasn't until the end when Zach had joined Emerald City chat and we discussed numen. For the first time I was hearing how others had discovered the same secrets and were making quality above 200Q. He was talking about the strange soft caps the numen had and how psyche somehow was involved in the softcap, later I discovered it was a bug that loftar had later plugged. This was very impressive to me and I really wanted to get in on it but as maze was just weeks from finishing I dismissed it yet again. But just days later world end hit and with a crushing blow ruined the whole maze project and putting me into a defeating feeling that I thought I would never recover from.
Alot of friends from Emerald City convinced me to pick haven up again and try out the new world. As it was my first world start it was very exciting and interesting but the thought of numen was far in the back of my mind. I was thinking of trying it out one day but it never came up as I always thought you needed higher quality then what we had around the base. I constantly compared the quality's back in world 6 and thought. Not yet, Its still to low. As Ramones were doing quality trees and Robby was still with us we headed down to the mines and dug heavy excavations for quality metals. Thats when we did our first spiraled anvil hammer. It took us weeks to dig huge amounts of quality ore and smelt it using quality coal. All that metal was smelted into bloom and constantly spiraled over and over. All that work we only managed to make a quality 122 anvil hammer and all of us were dead exhausted. We projected what the next step of spiraling would come out as and all of us were just thinking its foolish as its just impossible spiraling another step for a yet higher quality 146 anvil hammer. Doing the 146Q anvil hammer we would need over 500k cast iron meaning over 5 weeks of constant non-stop mining. It was just ridiculous levels of mining and we just shelfed the project thinking that we some day might just try numen out instead of this mad spiral.
Not long after Robby left us as real life had caught up to him and we were dead busy picking up the tasks he used to do. It was around the same time when CoolDev had joined Emerald City and we were glad to have him around. Being the leading industry member of DIS we were glad to have him over to help out in mining and other tasks. We were bragging about our dual spiraled anvil hammer of quality 122Q while he was making fun of us telling us that he could easily hit 150Q with half the work we put in it. Apparently he had dabbled with numen as well in world 6 and reached even yet higher quality's then Zach had. What they had apparently discovered was the faulty softcap in the Forge Prayer. Somehow loftar had made a mistake and put the softcap in Perception and Exploration instead of Strength and Smithing giving Zach's team the false readings. They had reported the bugs and had gotten the softcap corrected.
As I always were interested in numen I wanted to give it a try, but exams were up so I had to break of haven for a bit. I was talking to Ramones over what they were up to and he was telling me how CoolDev was trying to make enough nuggets for an anvil hammer. It had taken them a few weeks to extract enough for the anvil hammer and including enough for a bronze sword for butchering. Ramones had encouraged me to talk to CoolDev regarding numen a few times as he was more knowledgeable regarding the subject but I kept telling him that I had barely any time. After exams I was exhausted and had logged in to see the final product of there hard layber. They had managed to make a Q157 anvil hammer to my surprise and I was shitting bricks as it had taken the three of us to make a 122. I was both confused and disappointed that such a shitty mechanic could exist in this game. After contacting CoolDev and talking over the details of numen I wanted to give it a try. But it wasn't till a month or so later after he had left Emerald City that I really got into numen and discovered what could have been the largest game exploit of haven of all times.
CoolDev left us shortly after as his love for this game had sailed away with all his old friends from DIS. He had given access to his Numen Account to Ramones to tinker with. After tinkering with numen a few times Ramones had told me how easy the system was with the correct setup. I was telling him over and over how we needed to move CoolDevs setup to a more secure location as it was in the open and could easily get ruined as there was alot of traffic around it. It was about this time when I had contacted CoolDev and asked him all the details regarding numen. This was when he told me about the world 6 numening and how they had contacted loftar regarding the fix. I had asked him about the different items and wondered how the system worked. He had given me a brief explanation including the few details that I had asked him. After he had explained about the quality mechanics I was asking him how gold and silver played a role as they didn't have a quality. He had told me briefly that gold and silver was very useful as it was easy numen point giving sacrifice.
I wasn't fully finished with Uni so I wasn't logging in to actively, but Ghost was back in haven. He was keeping Emerald City busy with his mad hunting and helping Ramones out where he could. One day I logged on and said to Ghost. Enough is enough. time to move his setup and we did. We moved it all into one of the cellars we had up by Ramones' plot and made sure it was all in the same exact order. As we had to make new cupboards for the setup we had a bunch of boards laying around. As I always have been a bit obsessed about quality zero sense last world I was providing Emerald City with infinite stockpiles of quality zero in cart signs by idol. Obviously all our cupboards always are made from these quality zero boards and when we had the numen finished and ready there was some left in cupboard signs.
It took me a few weeks when I was middle of the finals to try my hand at this numen. I had logged in to get my mind off of my studies and asked Ramones for the account. As I was new to it and I had waited so long to try it out I was hysterically addicted to it. I was running around refreshing the cubs with items that had run out of items to keep sacrificing more. I wasn't even interested in getting the nuggets but to try hit 200 numen points. I barely could reach the 200 mark as our items wasn't quite that high yet. A few times rare items had shown up in the numen slots and obviously when your up at 180+ numen your a fool to forfeit so your basically stuck if you cant find the item that you need when its ask for. Ones or twice boards had shown up but I had reached the point where I was above the board quality we had in stock. I had to either sacrifice the higher quality boards available to me in the cubs from CoolDevs setup or run all the way over to Emerald City idol and pickup a few quality zero boards by idol. But I was to lazy and I was still middle of exams so I always sacrificed the quality stuff even if it was lower then the numen points making it into a waste as the quality boards could have probably been used more efficiently. Clearly if your 1Q lower then your numen count or 100Q lower it doesn't matter so it was a waste using the 170+ boards. In the end boards had shown up yet again and it had put me in a pinch. The other two items were to valuable and I was fresh out of boards. I was about to give up as I didn't have the energy running all the way back to village center. But I remembered that we had a few unfinished cubs that I could steal the boards from.
That's when it all happened. I went up the stairs and found a unfinished cupboard. I picked up a quality zero board out of the sign and went down to just put the damn thing in so I could keep the sacrifice going. I was thinking just a few more items then I need to get off. Then I noticed something strange. Somehow the numen count was altered and I was disappointed that I had lost yet another point. But that wasn't the case as the numbers was up a bit higher. I thought to myself this is strange, I can swear the count is higher then it should be. Then it all hit me. CoolDev had told me gold and silver gives numen and they both have no quality. I was going mad I thought. It's not possible. Such and old system and I cant be the first one to discover it. I had to keep going. After a few sacrifices the board had shown up in the left slot again. This time I had picked up another board ready in my inventory to try it out. I had zoomed in on the maximum setting to make sure my eyes wasn't playing tricks on me. I slowly picked up the item on the cursor and slowly dragged it over and right clicked the shrine. It was as everything was moving in slow motion, the character moved towards the shrine, then the small purple number showed up. IT WAS TRUE. The number was showing +3.
Zero items gave numen points regardless of the numen count. I knew at this point that we had stumbled across the biggest secret in the history of haven. We had to exploit its mad twisting hand into such levels unseen by any hearthling ever before. The story's that unfolded was nothing short of madness and twisted ingenuity.
This is my personal vantage point of this story. You can simply choose to believe what I have to tell you as some might not be fully accurate and some of it might be fiction.
It all began in world 6 in the thickest of lags, this was sometime after I had joined Emerald City as a satellite and Matti had joined up with me living in the semi larger base found somewhere in the western part of the map. I was in the middle of the Maze project and Matti was attempting to finalize the automated curio system. I was telling Matti that we needed better metal curios and our discussions went on about the quality of our anvil and hammer. I had previously told him about a mechanic uncharted called numen and we both had disagreed about its worth. To him it seamed to be to random and convoluted. He was more convinced about making higher quality smelters and try out spiraling. As for me it was to much work picking up another project while I was in middle of the maze construction. We both dismissed it and time passed by.
Months went on till I had started to finalize the maze and the discussions about metals had sprung up in the Emerald City chats. I had yet again brought up the discussions about how it might be possible making extreme metals from numen. Again with alot of dismissal alot of questions regarding how risky it might be to be forced to sacrifice items and how much this numen sounded like voodoo then spiraling. I had explained that it was risky but it was worth an attempt to see how this mechanic worked. Although I was just about finished with maze I had no time at all attempting something new and was telling people in Emerald City chat that this was going to become my new project ones I was finished with the maze and how I needed there aid when the time was right.
It wasn't until the end when Zach had joined Emerald City chat and we discussed numen. For the first time I was hearing how others had discovered the same secrets and were making quality above 200Q. He was talking about the strange soft caps the numen had and how psyche somehow was involved in the softcap, later I discovered it was a bug that loftar had later plugged. This was very impressive to me and I really wanted to get in on it but as maze was just weeks from finishing I dismissed it yet again. But just days later world end hit and with a crushing blow ruined the whole maze project and putting me into a defeating feeling that I thought I would never recover from.
Alot of friends from Emerald City convinced me to pick haven up again and try out the new world. As it was my first world start it was very exciting and interesting but the thought of numen was far in the back of my mind. I was thinking of trying it out one day but it never came up as I always thought you needed higher quality then what we had around the base. I constantly compared the quality's back in world 6 and thought. Not yet, Its still to low. As Ramones were doing quality trees and Robby was still with us we headed down to the mines and dug heavy excavations for quality metals. Thats when we did our first spiraled anvil hammer. It took us weeks to dig huge amounts of quality ore and smelt it using quality coal. All that metal was smelted into bloom and constantly spiraled over and over. All that work we only managed to make a quality 122 anvil hammer and all of us were dead exhausted. We projected what the next step of spiraling would come out as and all of us were just thinking its foolish as its just impossible spiraling another step for a yet higher quality 146 anvil hammer. Doing the 146Q anvil hammer we would need over 500k cast iron meaning over 5 weeks of constant non-stop mining. It was just ridiculous levels of mining and we just shelfed the project thinking that we some day might just try numen out instead of this mad spiral.
Not long after Robby left us as real life had caught up to him and we were dead busy picking up the tasks he used to do. It was around the same time when CoolDev had joined Emerald City and we were glad to have him around. Being the leading industry member of DIS we were glad to have him over to help out in mining and other tasks. We were bragging about our dual spiraled anvil hammer of quality 122Q while he was making fun of us telling us that he could easily hit 150Q with half the work we put in it. Apparently he had dabbled with numen as well in world 6 and reached even yet higher quality's then Zach had. What they had apparently discovered was the faulty softcap in the Forge Prayer. Somehow loftar had made a mistake and put the softcap in Perception and Exploration instead of Strength and Smithing giving Zach's team the false readings. They had reported the bugs and had gotten the softcap corrected.
As I always were interested in numen I wanted to give it a try, but exams were up so I had to break of haven for a bit. I was talking to Ramones over what they were up to and he was telling me how CoolDev was trying to make enough nuggets for an anvil hammer. It had taken them a few weeks to extract enough for the anvil hammer and including enough for a bronze sword for butchering. Ramones had encouraged me to talk to CoolDev regarding numen a few times as he was more knowledgeable regarding the subject but I kept telling him that I had barely any time. After exams I was exhausted and had logged in to see the final product of there hard layber. They had managed to make a Q157 anvil hammer to my surprise and I was shitting bricks as it had taken the three of us to make a 122. I was both confused and disappointed that such a shitty mechanic could exist in this game. After contacting CoolDev and talking over the details of numen I wanted to give it a try. But it wasn't till a month or so later after he had left Emerald City that I really got into numen and discovered what could have been the largest game exploit of haven of all times.
CoolDev left us shortly after as his love for this game had sailed away with all his old friends from DIS. He had given access to his Numen Account to Ramones to tinker with. After tinkering with numen a few times Ramones had told me how easy the system was with the correct setup. I was telling him over and over how we needed to move CoolDevs setup to a more secure location as it was in the open and could easily get ruined as there was alot of traffic around it. It was about this time when I had contacted CoolDev and asked him all the details regarding numen. This was when he told me about the world 6 numening and how they had contacted loftar regarding the fix. I had asked him about the different items and wondered how the system worked. He had given me a brief explanation including the few details that I had asked him. After he had explained about the quality mechanics I was asking him how gold and silver played a role as they didn't have a quality. He had told me briefly that gold and silver was very useful as it was easy numen point giving sacrifice.
I wasn't fully finished with Uni so I wasn't logging in to actively, but Ghost was back in haven. He was keeping Emerald City busy with his mad hunting and helping Ramones out where he could. One day I logged on and said to Ghost. Enough is enough. time to move his setup and we did. We moved it all into one of the cellars we had up by Ramones' plot and made sure it was all in the same exact order. As we had to make new cupboards for the setup we had a bunch of boards laying around. As I always have been a bit obsessed about quality zero sense last world I was providing Emerald City with infinite stockpiles of quality zero in cart signs by idol. Obviously all our cupboards always are made from these quality zero boards and when we had the numen finished and ready there was some left in cupboard signs.
It took me a few weeks when I was middle of the finals to try my hand at this numen. I had logged in to get my mind off of my studies and asked Ramones for the account. As I was new to it and I had waited so long to try it out I was hysterically addicted to it. I was running around refreshing the cubs with items that had run out of items to keep sacrificing more. I wasn't even interested in getting the nuggets but to try hit 200 numen points. I barely could reach the 200 mark as our items wasn't quite that high yet. A few times rare items had shown up in the numen slots and obviously when your up at 180+ numen your a fool to forfeit so your basically stuck if you cant find the item that you need when its ask for. Ones or twice boards had shown up but I had reached the point where I was above the board quality we had in stock. I had to either sacrifice the higher quality boards available to me in the cubs from CoolDevs setup or run all the way over to Emerald City idol and pickup a few quality zero boards by idol. But I was to lazy and I was still middle of exams so I always sacrificed the quality stuff even if it was lower then the numen points making it into a waste as the quality boards could have probably been used more efficiently. Clearly if your 1Q lower then your numen count or 100Q lower it doesn't matter so it was a waste using the 170+ boards. In the end boards had shown up yet again and it had put me in a pinch. The other two items were to valuable and I was fresh out of boards. I was about to give up as I didn't have the energy running all the way back to village center. But I remembered that we had a few unfinished cubs that I could steal the boards from.
That's when it all happened. I went up the stairs and found a unfinished cupboard. I picked up a quality zero board out of the sign and went down to just put the damn thing in so I could keep the sacrifice going. I was thinking just a few more items then I need to get off. Then I noticed something strange. Somehow the numen count was altered and I was disappointed that I had lost yet another point. But that wasn't the case as the numbers was up a bit higher. I thought to myself this is strange, I can swear the count is higher then it should be. Then it all hit me. CoolDev had told me gold and silver gives numen and they both have no quality. I was going mad I thought. It's not possible. Such and old system and I cant be the first one to discover it. I had to keep going. After a few sacrifices the board had shown up in the left slot again. This time I had picked up another board ready in my inventory to try it out. I had zoomed in on the maximum setting to make sure my eyes wasn't playing tricks on me. I slowly picked up the item on the cursor and slowly dragged it over and right clicked the shrine. It was as everything was moving in slow motion, the character moved towards the shrine, then the small purple number showed up. IT WAS TRUE. The number was showing +3.
Zero items gave numen points regardless of the numen count. I knew at this point that we had stumbled across the biggest secret in the history of haven. We had to exploit its mad twisting hand into such levels unseen by any hearthling ever before. The story's that unfolded was nothing short of madness and twisted ingenuity.
Numen Zero Explenation
The Machinery and history of the numen grind.
Numen Factory
Prior to even doing any work we had to make an alt with as high strength and smithing as possible. Ramones did most of the work constantly feeding curios to a miner alt. We were aiming for 400 Smith and as high STR as possible. In the end this was the result of the characters stats before we killed and reincarnated a new char. sqrt( 901 * 469 ) = 650 softcap.
The basic functionality of numen zero is simple. Find an sacrifice quality zero items when its asked for in the left slot. But not all items that shows up in numen can be made into quality zero. To make zero quality items is more or less as hard or in some instances tonnes harder then making quality items. Its also vital to know what types of items even shows up in numen. We had to research a lot of different areas of haven to find and make zero quality items and not only that in such bulk amounts that your could continuously sacrifice them without any delays.
The first thing we did was to create scripts to forfeit over and over and record each type of item that could show up in numen. We made statistical models of what types of items showed up, how often they showed up and how often they showed up in the left most slot. We had over 10 characters forfeit for over 5h straight and create massive data logs. Then collected them and built excel sheets of the logs.
These were the discovery's we made.
-The system was completely randomized. Each item had an equal chance to show up in any slot.
-Only 126 items showed up in numen out of all the items throughout haven.
-One of the items was impossible to make, the Cave Cheddar.
-55 items out of the total 126 could be made into quality zero.
Later we discovered wool could not be made into Q0 reducing it to 51 Q0 types of items that is attainable. Also of the 51 only 42 easy to bulk produce.
This is an image of all the items showing up in numen.
Full Numen list (descending order from easiest to bulk produce to the hardest as we saw fit):
And a List of the quality zero list similar to above in descending order:
For the trees we had to make 120 Q6 pots. Making a single Q6 pot was tonnes of work as described in this thread.
Then we used Q0 boards and Q1 blocks and fibers to make quality zero herbalist tables. We must have made over 200 of them by the end of the whole project.
The pots that were produced was used in couple with quality zero herbalist tables, quality 10 water and soil and planted with the lowest farming to gain Q0 trees. We also discovered that Q1 seeds never produced Q0 trees so fresh picking Q10 seeds from regular trees was a common technique to produce Q0 stage 6 trees. We had to make a whole new base operation in broadleaf forest just to plant our trees. To get the amount that was needed we had to have planted over 1000 trees. Thats where the tree experiments came in to try find an easier method for producing them. Apparently the equation didn't help at all as Q0 stage 5 trees are just a random fluke in the system and you got maybe 1-5 for every 100 trees you plant. The trees gave us Q0 tree seeds, bark, birch bark, blocks of wood, branches and as for the trees that didn't go to Q0, used in making herbalist tables of quality zero.
To produce quality zero feathers we had to make quality 1 fodder for the animals then mix it with an elm bough of quality 0 driving the Q down to zero. Then feed chickens that were growing up and make Q0 feathers and bones with Q0 fodder.
Zero silk was made with a stunted mulberry tree at stage 4 giving an endless source of Q0 mulberry leaves. We also had to make 66 Q0 herbalist tables just for the silk. The silk production must have been the toughest as we had to maintain the system constantly to never run out.
The animals we had sense ages ago discovered that they produced Q0 meat and hide if you slowly starved them to death. We had to taim new fresh animals as higher quality animals then Q10 never did produce Q0 meat and bones. We later experimented with them to discover why. But a single cow took over 7 days and pigs/sheep 2 weeks to reach the starving point and produce the Q0 meat and hides. The animal taming we did here on sheep was the ones crashing the server unexpectedly. The amount of animals we must have taimed must have been over 200-300 pigs, sheep and cows in total. Then we tried to spiral breed sheep to Q0 but discovered that animals never can go lower then Q5.
The milk was insanely difficult to produce Q0 out of. You have to starve a cow to the edge of death and save them right before they die. If you miss the deadline they die or if you feed them to early the give quality milk. The cows we had were starving to 0% hunger and then feed just minutes before they died. It took 7 days to reach this point so doing it to multiple cows was incredibly difficult. After they reached 0% hunger you had to breed them and have them give a baby to give the milk on top of the 7 day waiting period. We produced over 40 of these Q0 milking cows as the milk was used both directly in numen, made into butter and was used in made into Q0 cheese.
We had to make a whole new line of Q0 cheese setup using Q0 tubs, Q0 boards and Q0 milk. Then kill auraches and muflans to butcher with Q0 metal tool and get Q3-4 intests and make Q3 rennet and produce Q1 curds. As cheese was an easy way to gain numen we must have produce thousands of Q0 cheese of all types.
On top of all that we had Q1 farms of all types that showed up in numen. Tobacco for ground and cured, tea for both green and black tea, pepper, poppy for boar tusks, grapes for raisins and Q0 wine as well as Q0 vinegar. Sadly we attempted Q0 beer and discovered it came out just 1Q higher then was necessary to produce Q0.
On top of all those items we had to bulk produce and maintain quality items that never did to go Q0. All the farming seeds, foods, perch, animal bones, rabbit hides, fox hides, metal nuggets, bronze swords, fresh tobacco, foragables and so on and on.
All the items had to be produce daily. As an example we had to run silk non stop day after day or we would run out instantly. Pepper had to be produced all the time or it would run out. Milking and cheese production was needed to get done or cheese would run out and halt the operation. Trees had to be constantly replanted and the animal taming / killing had to be done ones every 3-4 days. It was honestly an operation of 5 but at the start of it I was the only one doing it all till Rom joined in a bit later.
But the worst part was the hauling. We hauled over 1000 cubs worth of materials down to the numen area. Everyday we had to fill over 50 cubs with random items that constantly ran out. Luckily I managed to automate the sacrificing part of the operation. A script did the sacrificing while we ran around the base collecting and hauling the materials down to numen. But the damn script had to be monitored as it never could run for more then 5 min before it complained something had run out.
As Ramones had real life issues he couldn't help other then trading the items we were in dire need of. Schime helped produce cheese but sadly he didn't join in until the very late endings of the whole project. Ghost helped with the hunting but similar to Ramones he had real life problems to tend to. In the end me and Rom were doing the most but the other guys helped chip in when they could. But without there aid we could never have gotten to our goal as fast as we did. It was a miracle that we managed to reach our goal in such a short time. Most of it I think was because of the group effort.
We discovered numen zero around early November and were at it full speed around mid December. But after new year we were at it full speed. It took us the whole month of January to finish our goal and during that we had a tone of delays and burnouts. In total about 3 months of work from start to end.
Prior to even doing any work we had to make an alt with as high strength and smithing as possible. Ramones did most of the work constantly feeding curios to a miner alt. We were aiming for 400 Smith and as high STR as possible. In the end this was the result of the characters stats before we killed and reincarnated a new char. sqrt( 901 * 469 ) = 650 softcap.
The basic functionality of numen zero is simple. Find an sacrifice quality zero items when its asked for in the left slot. But not all items that shows up in numen can be made into quality zero. To make zero quality items is more or less as hard or in some instances tonnes harder then making quality items. Its also vital to know what types of items even shows up in numen. We had to research a lot of different areas of haven to find and make zero quality items and not only that in such bulk amounts that your could continuously sacrifice them without any delays.
The first thing we did was to create scripts to forfeit over and over and record each type of item that could show up in numen. We made statistical models of what types of items showed up, how often they showed up and how often they showed up in the left most slot. We had over 10 characters forfeit for over 5h straight and create massive data logs. Then collected them and built excel sheets of the logs.
These were the discovery's we made.
-The system was completely randomized. Each item had an equal chance to show up in any slot.
-Only 126 items showed up in numen out of all the items throughout haven.
-One of the items was impossible to make, the Cave Cheddar.
-55 items out of the total 126 could be made into quality zero.
Later we discovered wool could not be made into Q0 reducing it to 51 Q0 types of items that is attainable. Also of the 51 only 42 easy to bulk produce.
This is an image of all the items showing up in numen.
Full Numen list (descending order from easiest to bulk produce to the hardest as we saw fit):
- Code: Select all
gfx/invobjs/branch
gfx/invobjs/butter
gfx/invobjs/carrot
gfx/invobjs/clay
gfx/invobjs/dream
gfx/invobjs/feather-chicken
gfx/invobjs/flaxfibre
gfx/invobjs/flour
gfx/invobjs/flower-poppy
gfx/invobjs/linencloth
gfx/invobjs/meat-bear
gfx/invobjs/meat-boar
gfx/invobjs/meat-cow
gfx/invobjs/meat-deer
gfx/invobjs/meat-pig
gfx/invobjs/meat-sheep
gfx/invobjs/mulberryleaf
gfx/invobjs/mussel
gfx/invobjs/onion
gfx/invobjs/peapod
gfx/invobjs/sand
gfx/invobjs/sbucket-milk
gfx/invobjs/sbucket-water
gfx/invobjs/seed-carrot
gfx/invobjs/seed-hemp
gfx/invobjs/seed-hops
gfx/invobjs/seed-poppy
gfx/invobjs/seed-wheat
gfx/invobjs/silkmothegg
gfx/invobjs/small/board
gfx/invobjs/small/wood
gfx/invobjs/soil
gfx/invobjs/stone
gfx/invobjs/straw
gfx/invobjs/tooth-bear
gfx/invobjs/frog
gfx/invobjs/grapes
gfx/invobjs/nugget-castiron
gfx/invobjs/nugget-copper
gfx/invobjs/nugget-hardmetal
gfx/invobjs/nugget-tin
gfx/invobjs/nugget-toolmetal
gfx/invobjs/perch
gfx/invobjs/rat
gfx/invobjs/rawglass
gfx/invobjs/sbucket-honey
gfx/invobjs/nugget-wroughtiron
gfx/invobjs/small/tobacco-fresh
gfx/invobjs/tusk
gfx/invobjs/ash
gfx/invobjs/bone
gfx/invobjs/brick
gfx/invobjs/hemp-cured
gfx/invobjs/malt-wheat
gfx/invobjs/meat-fox
gfx/invobjs/meat-rabbit
gfx/invobjs/nugget-bronze
gfx/invobjs/raisins
gfx/invobjs/silkfilament
gfx/invobjs/small/tobacco-cured
gfx/invobjs/tea-black
gfx/invobjs/tea-green
gfx/invobjs/tobacco-ground
gfx/invobjs/bottle-winef
gfx/invobjs/apple
gfx/invobjs/birchcatkin
gfx/invobjs/seed-fir
gfx/invobjs/acorn
gfx/invobjs/maplesamara
gfx/invobjs/string
gfx/invobjs/antlers-deer
gfx/invobjs/bottle-wine-bier
gfx/invobjs/brag
gfx/invobjs/pipe
gfx/invobjs/silkthread
gfx/invobjs/wool
gfx/invobjs/yarn
gfx/invobjs/beeswax
gfx/invobjs/candle
gfx/invobjs/herbs/chantrelle
gfx/invobjs/herbs/inkweed
gfx/invobjs/herbs/rustroot
gfx/invobjs/hide-prep-rabbit
gfx/invobjs/intestines
gfx/invobjs/leather
gfx/invobjs/bark
gfx/invobjs/boneglue
gfx/invobjs/cheese-cellarcheddar
gfx/invobjs/cheese-creamycamembert
gfx/invobjs/cheese-mothzarella
gfx/invobjs/cheese-temmentaler
gfx/invobjs/herbs/bloodstern
gfx/invobjs/herbs/cavebulb
gfx/invobjs/nugget-steel
gfx/invobjs/small/hide-prep-fox
gfx/invobjs/birchbark
gfx/invobjs/cheese-brodgarblue
gfx/invobjs/cheese-genericgouda
gfx/invobjs/cheese-harmesan
gfx/invobjs/pepper
gfx/invobjs/pot-hot
gfx/invobjs/small/hide-prep-cow
gfx/invobjs/tusksnuff
gfx/invobjs/bread
gfx/invobjs/bread-brodgar
gfx/invobjs/cake-carrot
gfx/invobjs/cheese-jorbonzola
gfx/invobjs/cheese-muskymilben
gfx/invobjs/feast-cavebulb
gfx/invobjs/feast-pirozhki
gfx/invobjs/honeybun
gfx/invobjs/nugget-silver
gfx/invobjs/pie-apple
gfx/invobjs/small/bronzesword
gfx/invobjs/cake-raisinbutter
gfx/invobjs/cheese-midnightblue
gfx/invobjs/cheese-sunlitstilton
gfx/invobjs/feast-bbbb
gfx/invobjs/small/sword
gfx/invobjs/amulet-pearlnecklace
gfx/invobjs/cheese-cavecheddar
gfx/invobjs/nugget-gold
gfx/invobjs/pearl
gfx/invobjs/silkcloth
gfx/invobjs/small/eq-bay12
gfx/invobjs/small/hide-prep-bear
And a List of the quality zero list similar to above in descending order:
- Code: Select all
gfx/invobjs/mulberryleaf
gfx/invobjs/linencloth
gfx/invobjs/small/board
gfx/invobjs/feather-chicken
gfx/invobjs/butter
gfx/invobjs/bone
gfx/invobjs/branch
gfx/invobjs/silkfilament
gfx/invobjs/bottle-winef
gfx/invobjs/sbucket-milk
gfx/invobjs/tea-green
gfx/invobjs/tea-black
gfx/invobjs/tobacco-ground
gfx/invobjs/small/tobacco-cured
gfx/invobjs/raisins
gfx/invobjs/silkthread
gfx/invobjs/string
gfx/invobjs/hemp-cured
gfx/invobjs/cheese-mothzarella
gfx/invobjs/cheese-creamycamembert
gfx/invobjs/cheese-cellarcheddar
gfx/invobjs/cheese-temmentaler
gfx/invobjs/candle
gfx/invobjs/apple
gfx/invobjs/seed-fir
gfx/invobjs/birchcatkin
gfx/invobjs/maplesamara
gfx/invobjs/acorn
gfx/invobjs/cheese-brodgarblue
gfx/invobjs/cheese-genericgouda
gfx/invobjs/cheese-harmesan
gfx/invobjs/intestines
gfx/invobjs/small/wood
gfx/invobjs/meat-cow
gfx/invobjs/meat-sheep
gfx/invobjs/meat-boar
gfx/invobjs/meat-pig
gfx/invobjs/bark
gfx/invobjs/nugget-silver
gfx/invobjs/cheese-muskymilben
gfx/invobjs/pepper
gfx/invobjs/cheese-jorbonzola
gfx/invobjs/small/hide-prep-cow
gfx/invobjs/tusk
gfx/invobjs/tusksnuff
gfx/invobjs/cheese-midnightblue
gfx/invobjs/cheese-sunlitstilton
gfx/invobjs/birchbark
gfx/invobjs/silkcloth
gfx/invobjs/nugget-gold
gfx/invobjs/small/sword
For the trees we had to make 120 Q6 pots. Making a single Q6 pot was tonnes of work as described in this thread.
Then we used Q0 boards and Q1 blocks and fibers to make quality zero herbalist tables. We must have made over 200 of them by the end of the whole project.
The pots that were produced was used in couple with quality zero herbalist tables, quality 10 water and soil and planted with the lowest farming to gain Q0 trees. We also discovered that Q1 seeds never produced Q0 trees so fresh picking Q10 seeds from regular trees was a common technique to produce Q0 stage 6 trees. We had to make a whole new base operation in broadleaf forest just to plant our trees. To get the amount that was needed we had to have planted over 1000 trees. Thats where the tree experiments came in to try find an easier method for producing them. Apparently the equation didn't help at all as Q0 stage 5 trees are just a random fluke in the system and you got maybe 1-5 for every 100 trees you plant. The trees gave us Q0 tree seeds, bark, birch bark, blocks of wood, branches and as for the trees that didn't go to Q0, used in making herbalist tables of quality zero.
To produce quality zero feathers we had to make quality 1 fodder for the animals then mix it with an elm bough of quality 0 driving the Q down to zero. Then feed chickens that were growing up and make Q0 feathers and bones with Q0 fodder.
Zero silk was made with a stunted mulberry tree at stage 4 giving an endless source of Q0 mulberry leaves. We also had to make 66 Q0 herbalist tables just for the silk. The silk production must have been the toughest as we had to maintain the system constantly to never run out.
The animals we had sense ages ago discovered that they produced Q0 meat and hide if you slowly starved them to death. We had to taim new fresh animals as higher quality animals then Q10 never did produce Q0 meat and bones. We later experimented with them to discover why. But a single cow took over 7 days and pigs/sheep 2 weeks to reach the starving point and produce the Q0 meat and hides. The animal taming we did here on sheep was the ones crashing the server unexpectedly. The amount of animals we must have taimed must have been over 200-300 pigs, sheep and cows in total. Then we tried to spiral breed sheep to Q0 but discovered that animals never can go lower then Q5.
The milk was insanely difficult to produce Q0 out of. You have to starve a cow to the edge of death and save them right before they die. If you miss the deadline they die or if you feed them to early the give quality milk. The cows we had were starving to 0% hunger and then feed just minutes before they died. It took 7 days to reach this point so doing it to multiple cows was incredibly difficult. After they reached 0% hunger you had to breed them and have them give a baby to give the milk on top of the 7 day waiting period. We produced over 40 of these Q0 milking cows as the milk was used both directly in numen, made into butter and was used in made into Q0 cheese.
We had to make a whole new line of Q0 cheese setup using Q0 tubs, Q0 boards and Q0 milk. Then kill auraches and muflans to butcher with Q0 metal tool and get Q3-4 intests and make Q3 rennet and produce Q1 curds. As cheese was an easy way to gain numen we must have produce thousands of Q0 cheese of all types.
On top of all that we had Q1 farms of all types that showed up in numen. Tobacco for ground and cured, tea for both green and black tea, pepper, poppy for boar tusks, grapes for raisins and Q0 wine as well as Q0 vinegar. Sadly we attempted Q0 beer and discovered it came out just 1Q higher then was necessary to produce Q0.
On top of all those items we had to bulk produce and maintain quality items that never did to go Q0. All the farming seeds, foods, perch, animal bones, rabbit hides, fox hides, metal nuggets, bronze swords, fresh tobacco, foragables and so on and on.
All the items had to be produce daily. As an example we had to run silk non stop day after day or we would run out instantly. Pepper had to be produced all the time or it would run out. Milking and cheese production was needed to get done or cheese would run out and halt the operation. Trees had to be constantly replanted and the animal taming / killing had to be done ones every 3-4 days. It was honestly an operation of 5 but at the start of it I was the only one doing it all till Rom joined in a bit later.
But the worst part was the hauling. We hauled over 1000 cubs worth of materials down to the numen area. Everyday we had to fill over 50 cubs with random items that constantly ran out. Luckily I managed to automate the sacrificing part of the operation. A script did the sacrificing while we ran around the base collecting and hauling the materials down to numen. But the damn script had to be monitored as it never could run for more then 5 min before it complained something had run out.
As Ramones had real life issues he couldn't help other then trading the items we were in dire need of. Schime helped produce cheese but sadly he didn't join in until the very late endings of the whole project. Ghost helped with the hunting but similar to Ramones he had real life problems to tend to. In the end me and Rom were doing the most but the other guys helped chip in when they could. But without there aid we could never have gotten to our goal as fast as we did. It was a miracle that we managed to reach our goal in such a short time. Most of it I think was because of the group effort.
We discovered numen zero around early November and were at it full speed around mid December. But after new year we were at it full speed. It took us the whole month of January to finish our goal and during that we had a tone of delays and burnouts. In total about 3 months of work from start to end.
Picture Gallery
End result of our hard labor
TL DR. jump to here.
The following pictures were taking during the process of numening.
The video we made was to show the final steps before we reached our goal. Prior to finalizing the project we had sent a PM to both Jorb and Loftar explaining briefly what we were about to do. Of course we new about the world 3 exploits and how fast Loftar was alerted to the exploits in the previous numen system. The aim was to report the bug prior to exploiting it fully knowing that non of the items we were about to produce would ever be kept. But reporting before exploiting as the procedure goes.
The reason we aimed for 20k numen points was because we predicted the quality of nuggets would come around 10k, or OVER 9000.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=l_Ox3pzh0sY
The video we made was to show the final steps before we reached our goal. Prior to finalizing the project we had sent a PM to both Jorb and Loftar explaining briefly what we were about to do. Of course we new about the world 3 exploits and how fast Loftar was alerted to the exploits in the previous numen system. The aim was to report the bug prior to exploiting it fully knowing that non of the items we were about to produce would ever be kept. But reporting before exploiting as the procedure goes.
The reason we aimed for 20k numen points was because we predicted the quality of nuggets would come around 10k, or OVER 9000.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=l_Ox3pzh0sY
Final words
spoiler alert for anyone wanting to follow the thread from the start
Sadly after the server came back up I took this picture. Character had its numen count reset back to 0 and there was no nugget in the inventory. We were waiting for a response to the PM we had sent and Jorb got back to us. He explained the bug would be plugged shortly and that we had the chance to use it for the time being. But Jorb must have been unaware that Loftar already had reset the count to 0 and plugged the zero mechanic in numen. We explained that the aim was to only take a few screenshots and have some fun making the tools hoping they might set the character back to the original count. But that never happened.
We were all quite crushed seeing how all our work was for nothing. It all reminded me of the maze and how everything was taken away right at the end of it. I talked to the other guys and in short we are pretty much spent. Noone have the will to start anything new or even interested in logging in anymore. As for me and Ghost it feels like its deja vu again. Clearly we were expecting a form of involvement by the devs correcting there mistake of having this exploit left in the game. But out of all the ways this could have ended this was the last one we were expecting.
All that can be said is that we wont be starting any new project on this server again as its harsh having massive projects crushed over and over.
Just a projection of what could have been if we had managed to pull it off.
Around quality 10 000 nuggets would have come out
Q10 000 anvil and 5500 hammer making the first Q7750 anvil hammer on the server.
Q10 000 grinder producing Q3000 sausages. This would make Chorizo the highest CON fep food ever recorded with 65 CON feps and Lamb giving over 120 PER.
Q10 000 Calderon making over Q2000 goldbeaters, foods, rennet and Q1500 hard leather.
Using the anvil hammer products like Q7000 bronze sword, Q4700 soldier sword, Q4800 B12s could be made making the B12 the most deadly weapon doing OVER 9000 dmg with 2k STR.
Spiraled WI could be used to make Q3800 metal saw producing Q660 boards making tree production explode and bringing trees to Q200 after 3-4 cyckles. From that you could produce Q260 pots and 135 kiln using the outputted products.
Cheese of Q600 could be made making some of the most incredible FEP cheese in history.
Q3000 steel could be made and make the god item of Q1000 Rbows and get over 3.4k dmg with full marshal.
The armor AC would come out above anything recorded in history around 3-4k AC including the fact it was made in bronze making it both deadly and covert.
But the most vital product of them all, using Q10 metals you could make Q1000 pickaxe with the anvil hammer. Using this incredible pickaxe you could make a fresh alt mine lvl 5 right after spawning making the ultimate troll digging army if coupled with an advanced multi mining script.
But sadly we didn't even get to see a single nugget come out.
This was something truly interesting for players that have been around for to long. It could have been the last spark of madness before haven 1.0 went out with a bang. Instead it was all taken away and everything went back to its same boring dead routines like its always been.
![¦]](./images/smilies/troll.gif "Trollface")
