What is the plural version of auroch?

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Re: What is the plural version of auroch?

Postby Bl1tzX » Fri May 28, 2010 4:38 am

I call them aurochsens too.
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Re: What is the plural version of auroch?

Postby DatOneGuy » Fri May 28, 2010 4:56 am

+1 Aurouchsen for sounding the coolest, but I call them Auroch(singular)/Aurouchs(plural) due to being a filthy American.
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Re: What is the plural version of auroch?

Postby Wipfmetz » Fri May 28, 2010 1:14 pm

I call that mass of meat and bones "auroch", the same way why i don't have any plurals for sand, water and air.
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Re: What is the plural version of auroch?

Postby Sever » Fri May 28, 2010 6:11 pm

Sands of time.
Clear ocean waters.
Fresh mountain air... well, I guess not on that one.

When I heard 'aurochsen,' I immediately thought of oxen. given that the (olde timey?) plural is supposed to be aurochs, ox and oxen has to be a derivative of that.
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Re: What is the plural version of auroch?

Postby loftar » Sat May 29, 2010 1:13 am

The singular is obviously "aurochs", seeing how it is cognate with English "ox".

Accordingly, the only reasonable plural form is, of course, "aurochsen", seeing how "ox" still uses the Saxon plural form "oxen" even in Modern English. :)
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Re: What is the plural version of auroch?

Postby niltrias » Sat May 29, 2010 1:16 pm

loftar wrote:The singular is obviously "aurochs", seeing how it is cognate with English "ox".

Accordingly, the only reasonable plural form is, of course, "aurochsen", seeing how "ox" still uses the Saxon plural form "oxen" even in Modern English. :)


However, many non-domesticated animals in English (excluding most but not all birds, oddly enough) can be referred to by a plural unchanged from the singular form. Some domesticated animals, such as sheep, also fit this pattern.

bison
bear
deer
boar
Fish (this is a bit of an exception.)
And last of my examples, but not least:
"Oh give me a home, where the buffalo roam.."

So I would argue that Aurochs or Aurochsen would both be acceptable plurals.
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Re: What is the plural version of auroch?

Postby loftar » Sat May 29, 2010 3:02 pm

niltrias wrote:However, many non-domesticated animals in English (excluding most but not all birds, oddly enough) can be referred to by a plural unchanged from the singular form. Some domesticated animals, such as sheep, also fit this pattern.

I'd argue that is for different reasons, though. Nouns such as "deer", "fish" and "sheep" simply have a plural form that is the same as the singular form as a modern remain of Anglo-Saxon plural formation from before the Norman invasion (and I love them). In that regard, they are the same as "ox"--"oxen", but simply of another declension. "Bison" seems to have a similar plural form, but I cannot really tell -- it is nor a word I encounter daily. :)

With regards to your example of "where the buffalo roam", I would interpret "roam" not as the plural conjugation of the indicative form of the word, but as the present subjunctive (possibly purely as a wishful description of the area of the home, or possibly for temporal agreement with the first clause if "give" could be interpreted as being present subjunctive, too -- I admit I'm not sure which is the most reasonable interpretation, though I'd guess the former). The "buffalo", on the other hand, truly is the singular form, and I guess the poem is, simply, from the time when the subjunctive was still in active use, and when the singular form of nouns was regularly used for generalizing the concept (as seen in such constructions as "man is good by his nature" when referring to "all men"; or the famous "der ewige Jude"). A very beautiful construction indeed -- I can tell it is from a time when man still knew how to write. :)

I've never seen "bear" or "boar" in a plural form other than "bears" or "boars", though.

Conclusion: I see no reason to accept any plural form other than "aurochsen". ;)
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Re: What is the plural version of auroch?

Postby niltrias » Sat May 29, 2010 3:48 pm

Not at all.

you can often find sentences like:

"Where deer, bear, boar, and fox once roamed, now there remains nothing but concrete."

We have a long history of making the livestock into something near uncountable nouns.

Here is a bit more of the poem:

Oh, give me a home where the buffalo roam
Where the deer and the antelope play
Where seldom is heard a discouraging word
And the skies are not cloudy all day


As you can see, these are all clearly plural, but only "skies" makes use of the plural form. Interesting, in that it doesnt even need to be plural.

Edit: sober post, as promised.

The use of the subjunctive that you are suggesting is unknown to me in English. Could you perhaps give me some example of it? I could give you plenty more examples of plural animals with spelling identical to singular, if you would like.
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Re: What is the plural version of auroch?

Postby Peter » Sat May 29, 2010 3:59 pm

"Buncha dem mean cows"
Surprise.
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Re: What is the plural version of auroch?

Postby eql » Sat May 29, 2010 5:05 pm

^^^^^^

he speaks the truth
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