Zentetsuken wrote:the fact that markets run by people who are not power PVP groups or respectable neutral people are easy targets.
This right here is the problem. "PvPers" (honestly nearly everyone could've done this, griefers were just the only ones who chose to) not just targeting neutral parties but insisting on fully annihilating their targets rather than just looting and leaving discourage community efforts like this. In a faction conflict I can understand completely annihilating a village to hinder retaliation efforts, but you gain nothing by completely destroying a neutral market. (In fact, you would more likely be shooting yourself in the foot as this prevents the market from recovering and becoming a potential source of future loot if you manage to raid it again.)
Zentetsuken wrote:Lunarius invited "poor innocent noobs" to sell their hard earned goods in his market but put extremely little effort in to keeping the place secure, he made a textbook, easily preventable security error and because of his severe lack of attention, care and responsibility, he allowed all the people who trusted him to have their shit stolen
This was a matter of incompetence, not lack of effort; clearly a lot of effort went into this market and Lunarius just failed to consider this unintuitive interaction. As a result of this small oversight combined with the malice of Haven griefers, the entire market was destroyed. The degree of competence required to build a public location 100% safely is very high; as you state, Lunarius has been playing this game for 10 years and has been running markets for a long time, and even with all that experience he still got everything destroyed due to not being aware of one specific interaction in Haven's complex, unintuitive and poorly documented rules. Which eventually leads to...
Ardennesss wrote:Stop pretending like using the vandalism permissions is some super obscure unpredictable interaction. When you specifically create an area that you plan to allow crimes, these are the things you should consider. And if they don't want to spend the time to think about that, maybe those people shouldn't be running markets.
If even someone as experienced as Lunarius shouldn't be running markets, then who should be running markets? Basically, if you combine all of your arguments it eventually boils down to 'people shouldn't be running markets'. But like I pointed out earlier, markets and similar community locations are beneficial to the game. As such, conversely, disincentivizing running community projects is harmful to the game. This behavior is harmful to the game, the game itself and not just the individual players you're directly affecting. Can't you just loot it and then let people rebuild it? Is the extra joy from vandalizing things worth harming the game for?
