The only world reset/wipe requests/discussion topic

[VDZ]

No world reset has ever been announced months in advance. How can you know this will be the case? "I'll lose everything in two weeks" is very different from "I'll lose everything in two months", let alone "I'll lose everything in 5-6 months".

At more than a month or two out, it definitely wouldn't discourage people from playing, however, how can you predict your development cycle that far ahead unless you have the means to put yourself through the crunch time necessary for sticking to such schedules?

By having things finished way before they're needed. If a feature/content added at world reset is only worked on during the month before the reset, yes, you'll have a strict deadline. But if the devs work on that feature/content for 20% of their time after the previous world reset, the feature will be done 5 months after the reset with no extra pressure, and will be all ready to go 7 months later when the world actually gets reset (assuming yearly resets). The vast majority of Haven's content does not require a world reset and is not required for a world reset, and can thus be worked on at any time at any pace without deadlines. You just need to do the work that does have a deadline in advance, so that by the time you get to the deadline there's no work left to do on whatever the deadline was for.

As an additional advantage, there's more time for testing, fixes and adjustments, and should it take longer than expected it can just eat into time scheduled for non-mandatory features/content rather than the developer's free time. The disadvantage of course is that you don't get to show off your shiny new thing immediately and if issues are found after release you need to 'get back into it' and figure out how things worked exactly, some ramp-up time that would be avoided had the thing been worked on recently. (You'll also want a smoke test shortly before release to make sure it hasn't broken in the meantime.) But while it's technically less efficient, I think it's worth the scheduling benefits.

Of course, the devs are the ones to determine their work schedule. But those are my thoughts on it and how I'd make the situation work.

[Kamekono]

No world reset has ever been announced months in advance. How can you know this will be the case? "I'll lose everything in two weeks" is very different from "I'll lose everything in two months", let alone "I'll lose everything in 5-6 months".

At more than a month or two out, it definitely wouldn't discourage people from playing, however, how can you predict your development cycle that far ahead unless you have the means to put yourself through the crunch time necessary for sticking to such schedules? I don't know about you or others here, but I can't take that kind of stress. It's so bad in the industry as a whole, some studios have denounced forcing their designers and engineers to endure such things and are working to remove such design scheduling.

I will say that if there were regularly scheduled restarts, a few people might be encouraged to play more, but what would the requirements of that be? What would suffer because of such a decision?

I feel like the conversation is taking the wrong turn. My proposal was not about having a strict reset schedule.
We don't need to know exactly when the reset is going to happen, but it would be useful to have an idea of when to expect one. Let's say the world starts today: devs tell you "we hope for this world to last at least 2 years"; then a few months go by, or even more, and devs give you an update "the new system we're working on will require a reset. we expect to push this new patch sometimes around next summer". Or it could go the other way, so maybe 1.5 years has gone by and they tell you "considering blah blah, we would like to push the reset even further and allow for at least another full year (instead of the planned 6 months left) before we reset".

None of those dates would be specific, and they wouldn't even be binding. They should specify that every time they give an update about it (which should be at least once very 4 to 6 months or so). It would give players a general idea of when the world is gonna end, IF EVERYTHING GOES AS PLANNED.

Take this very moment as an example. If someone suddenly felt like playing again, they would find themselves in a very awkward situation.
The world has been around for 1 year. That's old enough for them to expect a reset might be around the corner, but not old enough for them to be certain about it.
Maybe if they knew the world is expected to last 1 more year, they would come back and play. Or maybe they come back now, just to find out the world is going to reset 3 weeks from now, leaving them upset for having to start over so soon.

This is why it would be nice to have some kind of generic reset timer, which can be adjusted as the world progresses.

[22nd_ChuckNorris]

No world reset has ever been announced months in advance. How can you know this will be the case? "I'll lose everything in two weeks" is very different from "I'll lose everything in two months", let alone "I'll lose everything in 5-6 months".

At more than a month or two out, it definitely wouldn't discourage people from playing, however, how can you predict your development cycle that far ahead unless you have the means to put yourself through the crunch time necessary for sticking to such schedules? I don't know about you or others here, but I can't take that kind of stress. It's so bad in the industry as a whole, some studios have denounced forcing their designers and engineers to endure such things and are working to remove such design scheduling.

I will say that if there were regularly scheduled restarts, a few people might be encouraged to play more, but what would the requirements of that be? What would suffer because of such a decision?

I feel like the conversation is taking the wrong turn. My proposal was not about having a strict reset schedule.
We don't need to know exactly when the reset is going to happen, but it would be useful to have an idea of when to expect one. Let's say the world starts today: devs tell you "we hope for this world to last at least 2 years"; then a few months go by, or even more, and devs give you an update "the new system we're working on will require a reset. we expect to push this new patch sometimes around next summer". Or it could go the other way, so maybe 1.5 years has gone by and they tell you "considering blah blah, we would like to push the reset even further and allow for at least another full year (instead of the planned 6 months left) before we reset".

None of those dates would be specific, and they wouldn't even be binding. They should specify that every time they give an update about it (which should be at least once very 4 to 6 months or so). It would give players a general idea of when the world is gonna end, IF EVERYTHING GOES AS PLANNED.

Take this very moment as an example. If someone suddenly felt like playing again, they would find themselves in a very awkward situation.
The world has been around for 1 year. That's old enough for them to expect a reset might be around the corner, but not old enough for them to be certain about it.
Maybe if they knew the world is expected to last 1 more year, they would come back and play. Or maybe they come back now, just to find out the world is going to reset 3 weeks from now, leaving them upset for having to start over so soon.

This is why it would be nice to have some kind of generic reset timer, which can be adjusted as the world progresses.

I rarely post even though I've played this since back in 2d haven. This pretty much sums it up perfectly, not just myself but 9-10 friends are also in the same boat.

[BoxingRock]

People have been practically begging for more communication for years.

The problem is that the devs are simply not interested. They meme and squirm their way out of the proposal every time it comes out in an awkward enough situation that they actually have to respond to it.

They think they are hilarious for keeping us in the dark and there are enough bootlickers around to derail conversations about it and assure them that everything they are doing is just fine.

The main difference between haven and other mmos or games with ladders/league/world resets is that other games have large dev teams with community managers, ambassadors, and teams of people analyzing data about how people play the game, and people actually playing the game too.

Haven has none of this, so as much as it is totally within the realm of expectation to have them actually communicate with us, they have convinced themselves that it is not necessary.

At the end of the day, if you want communication and you are tired of the bullshit - TELL THE DEVS WITH YOUR WALLET

Don't buy a sub, don't buy the hats.

There are obviously enough people playing right now that are so complacent with how things are that the devs have ZERO DESIRE to change their ways.
They are still making money, they know that 100s of people are going to buy subs as soon as they reset the world even if the changes are "we did nothing go fuck yourself"

The only real tool we have is our desire to pay.
This forum is not working at a platform for dev-player communication in any meaningful way.

[Raffeh]

dont worry i love u devs. w13 pls

[Zampfeo]

I don't mind that they don't announce resets beforehand. In fact, I'm used to resets being unplanned and only coming when something goes wrong with the database or an update breaks the current game. The dev's intention has always been to have one, perpetual world with no resets and, if they start announcing planned resets, that's antithetical to their long term goal. Don't get me wrong; the game is far from that goal in terns of gameplay and the devs have done a pretty shit job at fixing the longevity issue.

The only thing that I ask is they announce resets outside of the forum. I don't come here everyday. Hell, I've gone years without coming here. I havn't been here for a world reset since like W8 because I always miss them. If they just sent an email or something I would be so grateful.

[abt79]

I don't mind that they don't announce resets beforehand. In fact, I'm used to resets being unplanned and only coming when something goes wrong with the database or an update breaks the current game. The dev's intention has always been to have one, perpetual world with no resets and, if they start announcing planned resets, that's antithetical to their long term goal. Don't get me wrong; the game is far from that goal in terns of gameplay and the devs have done a pretty shit job at fixing the longevity issue.

The only thing that I ask is they announce resets outside of the forum. I don't come here everyday. Hell, I've gone years without coming here. I havn't been here for a world reset since like W8 because I always miss them. If they just sent an email or something I would be so grateful.

In the spirit of a world-longevity goal, would it not then make sense to state something like "no reset for the next X months unless something goes REALLY wrong"?

Right now too little info is killing the playerbase anyways since returning/lapsed players see the devs' vague "bigger things coming," a year+ after the last reset, and think it means a soon-coming new world means there's no reason to play now.

[Kearn]

i think a return to that experimental world end system i.e. where players ultimately have control of world resets is probably where the game ultimately should end up

there probably needs to be a timegate to begin the process at all along with either a world age penalty that makes it more difficult to start the process early or a contest multiplier that makes it more difficult to stop as the world gets older

i would like to see some kind of implementation where smaller players are able to contribute towards or against worldend in some meaningful way instead of it simply being a contest of whoever can bot stats harder but i would have to think about how that would work without being abusable via spamming alts

[vnsmirnov]

If online falls below 100 players, then the world will perish

[Kamekono]

In the spirit of a world-longevity goal, would it not then make sense to state something like "no reset for the next X months unless something goes REALLY wrong"?

Right now too little info is killing the playerbase anyways since returning/lapsed players see the devs' vague "bigger things coming," a year+ after the last reset, and think it means a soon-coming new world means there's no reason to play now.

Exactly. Not knowing does more harm than good. I know lots of players that have stopped playing for a few months, and now would like to play again but feel like it's "not worth it" because a reset might come any day. If they knew no reset was planned for several months, they would come back and play.

Also there are two components that go against world longevity right now:
1st. The map is fixed, not expanding. It has all been explored, it has almost entirely been settled (between active places, ruins, and areas that still show signs of player activity). Even with a new character, there's no "fresh feeling".
2nd. There's no reason to move around. The first few months are usually a lot more interesting because you settle down as soon as possible and then start exploring until you find a better spot. Many villages move around, some even to new continents, so there's a new base to be built and so on... After a year, nobody is going anywhere. You already know all where all the resources are in your area, you know your neighbors, and you know there's no reason to leave a good chunk of your stuff behind (or do lots trips) to move to another spot. If the map was expanding, and if the new areas included new threats but also new rewards, people might still want to move around. Maybe someone would even make a new realm in the new area. Maybe the new area could be a one-way-trip; once you get there, you can't ever go back (or maybe u can go back but it requires some new rare item you can only make with resources found in this new area).