The only world reset/wipe requests/discussion topic

[Pinkie-Pie]

I don't quite understand why people feel they 'need' to catch up, unless you plan on actively seeking out pvp. Maybe I've just been lucky or careful or perhaps I've just never had anything another player wanted badly enough... but it seems to me unwanted pvp is very rare, even if a player could one shot you. You have a number of things 'protecting' you as a fresh character. One is the age of the world itself: powerful people have everything they want/need, another is the fact that as a new character you won't have anything worth taking or leaving a battery/murder scent over. A 'titian' on the other hand stands to loose quite a lot by leaving thoes scents which can then be followed or nidbaned. Not to mention the annoyance of the red-handed debuff.

Infact I'd go so far as to say the chances of being attacked by a materially stronger character are far higher early world where they stand to gain more and risk much less.

Granted... yes, yes they 'could' just kill you.

[DDDsDD999]

We're now 1751 days in, and the average active player has very high stats. If you're just looking to get into HnH now, you already know you don't have any chance to compete with the top players. They're basically gods compared to anyone who starts now. Even if you just sat there and ate Meat Pies all day, you'd never have a chance to catch up to the people who have been active the entire time. Even if you botted all day every day.

This is the biggest bull-shit ever. People have been raising top-tier characters in the span of a month or two. There's no time-gate on raising stats, just how much food you want to make, and how much questing you want to do. The amount of effort for someone to start fresh is lessened greatly. You can buy q1000 tools pretty cheap, and quality of foodstuffs just keeps going higher. It accelerates growth immensely. But if you want to be competitive, It's mostly a matter of knowing what to do to be competitive, and actually be willing to do that.

Granted... yes, yes they 'could' just kill you.

Not even, if you're full HHP, they'd do too much damage and ko you in one hit. It takes at least two big hits to kill someone.

[borka]

Look how many bother to play legacy. I'm sure it's just enough to keep it going, but... not really (at least in my opinion).

Well at least those few count on a promise made (and even would pay extra for repair if needed) ...

Honestly i don't think those few still play legacy should be used as arguments when it comes to anything about the actual version of HnH ...


... and have there ever been wipes because someone asked for or had there been reasons that made jorb and loftar decide to ?!?

[MagicManICT]

Well, in the big discussion about "more than one server," I'd like to point people to Salem back while J&L were still the devs on it, and another small game I used to play, "A Tale in the Desert." Splitting servers took active populations and ended up splitting it enough to where none of the servers were really strong enough to play on. I'd have rather pointed at a local example than outside ones as I couldn't be sure who know what was going on with those. (For that matter, I could mention certain other MMOs that have had to merge servers again and again because they started with too many, or tried to split too far and caused their games "fun factor" to fall off due to the active player count dropping below a critical threshold. Some still go on, several no longer survive.)

[Omnipotent]

Cut my finger up pretty badly and got 4 stitches this last week. Sorry in advance for the wall of text, but I wanted to answer everyone.

So to keep the game fun for new players you either need to restart the world, or start up another world alongside the current world.

Or change the mechanics to some that don't endlessly inflate the numbers anymore, then people could join late in a world as reaching the levels of day 1 characters would be possible.

Yeah, that's definitely a viable choice. While I am sure a lot of the try-hards would throw a fit over a change like this, it does seem like one of the best options. One of the biggest problems I could foresee with a system like that however is there will be stagnation once you reach the cap unless other goals/options are added in; something akin to the current credo system (or possibly something like WoW's artifact power? Idk, it's hard to keep people engaged unless you give them other things to use their stuff for. CF helps). With that system, you would have all these goals to work towards, but then once you hit the cap(s) you need there's not much of a reason to log in anymore aside from raiding, public relations, feeding alts and tames, farming crops, and (optionally) refilling the study. With the current player base being as small as it is, I don't think Jorb or Loftar would like the idea of people having less of a reason to log in. They're looking for more ways to get people to want to log in.

I don't quite understand why people feel they 'need' to catch up, unless you plan on actively seeking out pvp.

It's not so much about a 'need' to catch up, but a desire to at least be competitive. Combat in HnH has always been different than other games. But the stats are so key in PvP that a lot of the time it really is just who has the higher numbers on their stats and gear. Even if both people have q1000 gear, a fight between someone with 1000UA vs 5000UA should always go in favor of the guy with 5000UA unless they are AFK or seriously drunk. And this should be a surprise to nobody, because the guy has wayy more stats. The other dude should have been slaughtered! The scale is just so large though that the stats could really use some caps or additional normalization beyond just the sq root formula IMO. If I recall correctly, in GW2 the highest tier legendary and ascended gear is only 5% better than the normal gear at that level. 5% is a good increase, but that's still very competitive for other players who don't have this gear/advantage.

Making the stats less important will then make their skills more important. In a good MMO combat system, there should be a balance between skill and stats that can homogeneously work together depending on who or what you are fighting. But in the current Haven, it's mostly about stats. Sure you can use a lot of different attacks, but if they all kill your target in 1-2 hits, does it really matter which one you use?

If things were different, eg: capped as Granger suggested... Then there should be a lot more balanced fights because players stats would be far more likely to be closer to one another, rather than the shotgun spray of levels that we currently have. There is somewhat of a problem right now where there is no limit to the amount of time you can invest in your characters stats. But with a change like this, there would be a point where you no longer need to raise those stats because you've hit your cap, so that problem is fixed with this change.

I'm not saying we should neuter all stats to kiddy levels. But the run-away stats we currently have are doing anyone here with a job or life a huge disservice in the long run. Right now it's fun when you can devote 24/7 to HnH, but can be very unforgiving when you have limited time.

You have a number of things 'protecting' you as a fresh character. One is the age of the world itself: powerful people have everything they want/need, another is the fact that as a new character you won't have anything worth taking or leaving a battery/murder scent over. A 'titian' on the other hand stands to loose quite a lot by leaving thoes scents which can then be followed or nidbaned. Not to mention the annoyance of the red-handed debuff.

Infact I'd go so far as to say the chances of being attacked by a materially stronger character are far higher early world where they stand to gain more and risk much less.

In my experience, the beginning of a new world has always been a shit show, so that is not really a valid comparison IMO. But I will humor you there and agree nonetheless. The plot for the average number of hostile players from the beginning of the world onward would probably curve downwards like a parabola towards the future from the beginning of the world (with an anomaly in the chart at the last month of the world where most people will kill anything that moves because the world is ending ).

But even in that beginning shit show: once you've got a claim down, it can protect you from a lot of the lower tier griefers. A basic wood wall will then protect you from most griefers (at least with the current raiding system). And anyone who can actually get beyond that at this point of the world is probably not going to be stoppable anyways, so you might as well let them take your shit.

I would agree people seem a lot less likely to harass people right now because they are all sated with everything they want/need. But that could also be partially due to the current raiding system which I think we can all agree has been a little care bear. I love it as a returning player, but I know it cripples raiding. The 'barriers to entry' are too high on most bases for people to even want to raid them, for the reasons you mentioned earlier. This promotes large base building which can be a big plus, and it makes it a million times easier for newer players to learn everything without getting screwed. But it still doesn't feel quite right to me. The claim shield concept doesn't feel like real raiding IMO. And it doesn't really seem to make much sense?

This is the biggest bull-shit ever. People have been raising top-tier characters in the span of a month or two. There's no time-gate on raising stats, just how much food you want to make, and how much questing you want to do. The amount of effort for someone to start fresh is lessened greatly. You can buy q1000 tools pretty cheap, and quality of foodstuffs just keeps going higher. It accelerates growth immensely. But if you want to be competitive, It's mostly a matter of knowing what to do to be competitive, and actually be willing to do that.

Making and gearing an alt is not comparable to starting as a new/returning player. I'm not just talking about the food and base you have waiting for that alt. The knowledge you have on this world alone could take a fresh player weeks or more to accumulate. Think of all of the locations you already know about, the public relations, already established base with brick/pali, new resource nodes, new structures, the CF, different bugs, stable supply of curios and int food for quick int gain (getting int up on a new character is so crucial to all future LP gain in the current LP system that this item alone can obv increase LP gain exponentially more than a new character could with some berries basic roasted meat), and etc:. There is a lot of content to this game and it was left undocumented seemingly intentionally. One of the best information resources we have for HnH (the RoB community wiki) is still outdated in many places, and missing a page here and there.

Leveling and gearing an alt to decent stats can be done in a few weeks/months, sure. But unless a new/returning player has some friends or get lucky with some freshly decaying bases, they are going to have a lot of 'catching up' (hate this term, but there's no better way to say it) to do. And there really isn't much that can be done about it. Some changes like making the stats and combat system more competitive with some of the suggestions mentioned above could help fix some of these problems, but not all of them. It just goes to show you can't please everybody!

Well, in the big discussion about "more than one server," ... Splitting servers took active populations and ended up splitting it enough to where none of the servers were really strong enough to play on. I'd have rather pointed at a local example than outside ones as I couldn't be sure who know what was going on with those. ...

I completely agree, and I apologize for even bringing it up. More servers would definitely fracture the population and that's not a good thing. I wasn't really trying to say it as an actual suggestion, just trying to theorize some ideas for a better HnH.

[MightySheep]

I thought I'd give a little pep talk to those wanting a new world, specifically thoes thinking a new world will let their group 'catch up' with large, powerful groups like DiS, Emerald City, HH ect.

Here's the short version: It won't.

Here's the long~ A new world will indeed start everyone back to all 10 base attributes and level 1 skills. But I do not think you understand how quickly things will develop. How dedicated you will have to be to have your group remain a front runner on the world stage. First of all, if you have fewer than at least 10 people, not 10 accounts, 10 human players: forget it. It takes human planning and cooperation to be a large and powerful faction. I'd even venture to say 10 is too few. On top of that will not be able to compete for the top spot without botting. Things like harvesting trellis plants that take a human a few extra seconds to do they add up in faction v faction.

Claims will be up the first day. Palisades will be up the second or third day. And even if you manage to become an early power you and your entire group will have to work your asses of to stay that way and even then if you don't have enough people, again actual collaborating human players, you will still be outpaced by more efficient role distribution.

So if the reason you want a world reset is that you think it will be a free ticket to a top spot in the next world, think again.

i have a little pep talk for u

short version: stfu
long version: shut the fuck up

[MagicManICT]

More servers would definitely fracture the population and that's not a good thing. I wasn't really trying to say it as an actual suggestion, just trying to theorize some ideas for a better HnH.

I think it's going to depend on how many people we get playing, really. It'd be nice if the world starts at 1k-1500 active players and just keeps going up from there. Look at EVE, though. They just keep expanding the universe in some manner, and I'm inclined to think that is what would happen with Haven. The downside is the road networks... soo... many... roads!!!

[Granger]

I think it's going to depend on how many people we get playing, really. It'd be nice if the world starts at 1k-1500 active players and just keeps going up from there. Look at EVE, though. They just keep expanding the universe in some manner, and I'm inclined to think that is what would happen with Haven.

We're getting there, slowly. Still there are quite some areas in which the world won't refresh (like the whole underground), where the devs would need to come up with creative ways to revert it to pristine condition (or somewhat near that). Sure there is the EVE approach (spawn instances out of nothing, hard reset areas time based) which they took with the dungeons... but at least for me these break immersion so I hope they come up with something better.

The downside is the road networks... soo... many... roads!!!

Mostly the roads are not a network, that's IMHO the main reason why they litter the landscape everywhere...

[beliposiroly]

I think it's going to depend on how many people we get playing

It's going to depend, how much money devs invest in marketing, hardware etc... It's not gonna happen (patreon could help, but i doubt it, for many reasons).

1k-1500 active players

~300-500 ppl, sounds pretty close, but only at beginning, then ~300 after few months.

[Astarisk]

We're now 1751 days in, and the average active player has very high stats. If you're just looking to get into HnH now, you already know you don't have any chance to compete with the top players. They're basically gods compared to anyone who starts now. Even if you just sat there and ate Meat Pies all day, you'd never have a chance to catch up to the people who have been active the entire time. Even if you botted all day every day.

This is the biggest bull-shit ever. People have been raising top-tier characters in the span of a month or two. There's no time-gate on raising stats, just how much food you want to make, and how much questing you want to do. The amount of effort for someone to start fresh is lessened greatly. You can buy q1000 tools pretty cheap, and quality of foodstuffs just keeps going higher. It accelerates growth immensely. But if you want to be competitive, It's mostly a matter of knowing what to do to be competitive, and actually be willing to do that.

I second the bull-shit statement. Catching up isn't hard at all, in the span of less than two months I made a character that has stats in the 5 digit range. This was starting from scratch, with no pre-existing industry. I looted all my stuff from nearby abandoned places and put forth the effort into making an industry out of it all. Catching up is easier now than it ever has been before. People wanting a world wipe tend to think it'll help them become the next super power of the next world, then the same thing ends up happening. They get destroyed and blown up by the super powers that have been in existence for years and years and years, because its hard to beat that level of team work and trust that they've established over time. A lot of people just want a wipe so they can seem relevant for a few weeks, get quickly shut down, then repeat the cycle of asking for another chance at it.