Thank you

[Clemins]

I'm having a swell time

[Dawidio123]

And it's very visible on the map compared to pclaim, so you can't try to stealth your way into having a secure location.

Skill issue. My cave palisade dried just fine.

Post location so I can check how you did it plz.

[animary]

I personally suspect that the concentration of players being created by the thingwall spawning mechanics is probably creating rougher neighbourhoods than usual

Absolutely. I equate these players with the bullies at the beach who never build anything but get their jollies by kicking down everyone else' sandcastles. So people stop building, the bullies get bored and leave, and the sandcastles reappear.

I am not a "spreadsheet player", monitoring every food point, every stat point, trying to become "king of the mountain" in the first month. Not deprecating those who enjoy that, but I prefer a role-playing game and a more social atmosphere, becoming friends with my neighbors rather than fearing any encounter with another player could mean my death (for no other reason than I am there). There must be a way of balancing the game for both styles of play.

[Clemins]

There must be a way of balancing the game for both styles of play.

Honestly, probably not. Haven tries to cater to two completely opposite extremes at the same time. Even if the developers had more time and cared more, I'd bet my life they couldn't balance Haven in a way that would leave both ends perfectly content. Just play how you want to, understand that some people aren't playing the game the same way you are, and accept how that effects you. Otherwise, and I mean this respectfully, go play something else.

[animary]

Honestly, probably not. Haven tries to cater to two completely opposite extremes at the same time. ....

Well, in business a compromise is "a solution equally unacceptable to all involved".

I've proposed a couple of ideas over the years, each feasible, both derided.
- Two servers (hardware is cheap nowdays), one PVP, one not, play either or both as you wish.
or
-During character creation you flag the character as PVP or not; in game PVP people are free to hit any other PVP people, non-PVP people cannot hit anyone nor be hit.

Either way PVP fans can get their kicks and other players can enjoy a more peaceable game (there are still plenty of ways to get killed).

I do not mind PVP when there is a rationale for it. If I steal your horse or trash your snekka and you kill me for revenge, that's understandable. If I'm sitting by the river, fishing, minding my own business, and you ride up, kill me, and ride away ...that's not understandable. That this is allowed means to me the devs endorse serial killers.

But the worst aspect of PVP as it is, is that it deters new players. Mention this game elsewhere and the general response, from any with experience here, is "don't bother, experienced players enjoy killing newcomers, you won't survive long enough to do anything".

"...understand that some people aren't playing the game the same way you are..."
Absolutely, but the opposite is also true: I'm not playing the game the same way they are. Why is their way "right"?

[Dawidio123]

??? i don't even know how to summarize this

I wish they'd make a short, like 1 month long non pvp server just to shut up all of you retards. You will try playing there and get griefed into quitting and make other stupid ass posts on the forum.
Read developer's thoughts on pvp (They don't endorse serial killers) to understand a bit more about why there is pvp, and why you can't just have non-pvp characters running around with pvp characters in the same server (imagine what would happen if 20 non-pvp characters were just running around and blocking people during a fight).

Like it doesn't take a fucking genius to think of dozen of ways to grief someone if they can't just aggro you and beat you to death (that's why you can aggro people on your claim even without rage).
You can play the game whatever way you want, but you need to accept the consequences of it.

If there's something you guys should complain about is that grinding stats/industry is autistic af (thus small/non-competitive groups can't really compete) and combat system is not really explained in any way, not that it's particularly hard, you could probably become above average fighter/be able to run away in most cases in a week or two of practice if you really wanted to.

[Reiber]

I personally suspect that the concentration of players being created by the thingwall spawning mechanics is probably creating rougher neighbourhoods than usual

Absolutely. I equate these players with the bullies at the beach who never build anything but get their jollies by kicking down everyone else' sandcastles. So people stop building, the bullies get bored and leave, and the sandcastles reappear.

I am not a "spreadsheet player", monitoring every food point, every stat point, trying to become "king of the mountain" in the first month. Not deprecating those who enjoy that, but I prefer a role-playing game and a more social atmosphere, becoming friends with my neighbors rather than fearing any encounter with another player could mean my death (for no other reason than I am there). There must be a way of balancing the game for both styles of play.

at the setteling stage it isnt even just about pvp players vs hermits,
in the end i am quite friendly to random spruces wandering around, but if i see someone building their caveclaim 2 minimaps away from me i bash it,
with the migration drive from the main continent, whirlpools and thingwalls you have to defend your status as an hermit,
and with how close people have to live together this world, you need to give people an reason to not have 4 neigbours in an 2 minimap radius.

[animary]

"...shut up all of you retards"

Ah yes, name calling is the last refuge of those who cannot argue with logic.

[DonVelD]

or theres no logic to begin with *dabs* *farts on your balls*

[Aerona]

Ultima Online divided its server 'shards' into two 'facets', Trammel and Felucca, after the first few years. It didn't work. Where PvP wasn't allowed, people just exploited guildmaster powers, impersonated someone else's friends or exploited the game economy knowing the rules would protect them from consequences. Meanwhile, where PvP was allowed, there was no longer a reason for non-toxic or social players to be there, so there was nothing but faction warfare and people with nothing better to do but to push the game's combat system beyond its breaking point as cheaply as possible while reinforcing each other with insults and constant abuse until there was hardly anyone left. Haven's strength is that it doesn't do this, so there's room for everyone, even those who would rather there wasn't.

The option to flag a character as 'not for PvP' doesn't work because this protection will be abused by alt accounts for construction, scouting, and so on. They've gone over this before. The game used to have a 'baby blue eyes' new player protection, but it was used to cause grief more than it ever prevented it.