Poaching

[SpacePig]

This game is designed so that there’s nothing a player can't acquire on their own.For any situation requiring more than one player in PvE content, bots or secondary windows can be used.There’s no reason to spare PvE players' lives—they provide no benefit and have no way to pay for their survival except through hats, tokens, or real money.

The issue arises when the server cannot distinguish between an automated bot or second window from a genuine player.As soon as you grant additional privileges to PvE players, those same rights will also be exploited by griefers using second windows, negatively impacting legitimate PvE players.Therefore, there are only a few viable solutions:

Make it difficult to find a player if they don’t want to be found—remove global map control features like Thangwalls, whirlpools, tobacco, make crossings costlier depending on distance from your fire, etc.
Never forgive murders under any circumstances—leave permanent traces at crime scenes allowing victims’ relatives to track down murderers. Prevent murderers from inheriting property, receiving burials, claiming land, healing wounds, trading goods until they compensate the victim's descendants with gold or assets such as livestock (for example, 15 cows).

[linkfanpc]

Prevent murderers from inheriting property, receiving burials, claiming land, healing wounds, trading goods until they compensate the victim's descendants with gold or assets such as livestock (for example, 15 cows).

[ConfusedChad]

virginity

so like... when's the last time you got pussy? you don't have to answer me, just think if being able to make posts like this is worth it

[animary]

"There’s no reason to spare PvE players' lives"

In other words only PvP players should exist. Attitudes like this are the major problem with this game. Goes right along with those "Hermits should be killed" folks.

Give these attitudes what they want and this game would be nothing but villages full of PvP players.

[Halbertz]

Give these attitudes what they want and this game would be nothing but villages full of PvP players.

AND THE RAIN WILL KILL US ALL

[vatas]

Call this 'Devil's Advocate' or whatever, but...

How are PvP players supposed to identify who is just a "PvE player" or a "Hermit"?

Jorb's Treatise "Developer Thoughts on PvP" is only flawed in the way he applies it. He seems unwilling to accept that lot of people burn loot murder (in-game) mainly for the intrinsic experience of it, with any instrumental in-game goal being secondary.

However, several core points remain poignant: there is no clear through-line to be drawn between "peaceful" and "hostile" action in a game complex enough like Haven. Extreme example from Legacy: a Sprucecap is simply fishing and gets murdered. Obviously unfair act of unwarranted aggression? Well, it turns out that because River Peal Mussels were tied to fish nodes, and how quality nodes worked in Legacy, that Sprucecap was effectively vandalizing a valuable resource node (high quality pearls) even if he was completely unaware he was doing any harm. Even simply building a homestead next to a river or lake could negatively impact other players. Because rowboats were the primary mode of travel (no Horses, Carts did not follow when fast traveling) forests along waterway were prime hunting grounds. Allegedly it was common to treat Sprucecaps like pests, other for reasons listed above and probably some others as well.

[magnet]

PvP bros can hardly keep themselves entertained fighting each other for 2 nanoseconds before they revert to vaporizing hermits

stats and gear differences create such a massive gap between PvP guys and regular guys that any resistance becomes futile

even if you band together (like Jorb alludes to), what the hell are you and your 50 MC neighbors going to do against the 500 str 500 agi b12-slinging terminator??

runescape solves the problem with combat brackets but I have no idea how you'd implement a similar system into this game

so instead we accept reality and the game becomes how to best avoid / hide from / appease your local warlord

[_Scipio]

virginity

so like... when's the last time you got pussy? you don't have to answer me, just think if being able to make posts like this is worth it

???? Post on your main, coward.

[SpacePig]

Call this 'Devil's Advocate' or whatever, but...

How are PvP players supposed to identify who is just a "PvE player" or a "Hermit"?

Jorb's Treatise "Developer Thoughts on PvP" is only flawed in the way he applies it. He seems unwilling to accept that lot of people burn loot murder (in-game) mainly for the intrinsic experience of it, with any instrumental in-game goal being secondary.

However, several core points remain poignant: there is no clear through-line to be drawn between "peaceful" and "hostile" action in a game complex enough like Haven. Extreme example from Legacy: a Sprucecap is simply fishing and gets murdered. Obviously unfair act of unwarranted aggression? Well, it turns out that because River Peal Mussels were tied to fish nodes, and how quality nodes worked in Legacy, that Sprucecap was effectively vandalizing a valuable resource node (high quality pearls) even if he was completely unaware he was doing any harm. Even simply building a homestead next to a river or lake could negatively impact other players. Because rowboats were the primary mode of travel (no Horses, Carts did not follow when fast traveling) forests along waterway were prime hunting grounds. Allegedly it was common to treat Sprucecaps like pests, other for reasons listed above and probably some others as well.

Murder provides gameplay benefits only at the very beginning of the game (and even then killing is not necessary), in order to quickly set up a level 2 mine and craft leather armor.

Further on, there are two main reasons for this behavior:

Firstly, extortion—morally weak players are forced to buy lives for their pixel pets with real money. These murders can be stopped only by depriving extortionists of monetization methods, such as preventing them from selling tokens back to newbies at discounted prices. The token should cease being an in-game currency and a means for Real Money Trading (RMT).

Secondly, mental trauma—when material gain does not interest someone but causing moral suffering, griefing, vandalism, trolling do. This will stop, just like it always stops in other games, when the suffering caused by murder becomes less severe or equal to inevitable sufferings inflicted upon those committing the act. In other words, if it ceases to be free pleasure, akin to crushing hedgehogs while riding a horse.

Of course, classification isn't perfect, and players who engage in these activities regularly and take pride in doing so cannot be attributed solely to one category—they usually both exploit developers through RMT and are psychopaths who kill beginners to cause emotional harm for personal enjoyment.

[Horn]

Call this 'Devil's Advocate' or whatever, but...

How are PvP players supposed to identify who is just a "PvE player" or a "Hermit"?

Jorb's Treatise "Developer Thoughts on PvP" is only flawed in the way he applies it. He seems unwilling to accept that lot of people burn loot murder (in-game) mainly for the intrinsic experience of it, with any instrumental in-game goal being secondary.

However, several core points remain poignant: there is no clear through-line to be drawn between "peaceful" and "hostile" action in a game complex enough like Haven. Extreme example from Legacy: a Sprucecap is simply fishing and gets murdered. Obviously unfair act of unwarranted aggression? Well, it turns out that because River Peal Mussels were tied to fish nodes, and how quality nodes worked in Legacy, that Sprucecap was effectively vandalizing a valuable resource node (high quality pearls) even if he was completely unaware he was doing any harm. Even simply building a homestead next to a river or lake could negatively impact other players. Because rowboats were the primary mode of travel (no Horses, Carts did not follow when fast traveling) forests along waterway were prime hunting grounds. Allegedly it was common to treat Sprucecaps like pests, other for reasons listed above and probably some others as well.

Im definietly PvE player but still i like PvP in this game. No other game give me such adrenaline spike upon seeing unknown player and activate "flight or flight as crazy instinct" in me. Its part of charm of this game. Still i acknowledge biggest problem - thats brings less money for authors. We have (only) quite loyal/addicted hardcor fanbase but thats not enough to bring profits and give motivation for game development for J&L. This game need dirty casuals (and their money) and realiable method to keep them. IMHO we need some noob continet(s)/area(s) like in similar games. It would be imposibble to aggro players on that areas (thieving/Vandalism etc. and bringing animals to base would be possible) at cost of for examle big hit on Q of everything (max 100q or -50+% debuff for everything in area for example).