The Laws of Brodgar

[Etienne]

Law II:

I think the requirements in 3.1 are way to low, I'd say at least 2/3 of the vote and proof of some kind of provocation. Also requiring the chieftain to propose a declaration of war shouldn't be required in my opinion, in the rare case war is justified it might be important to act fast, a chieftain that is offline for a few days might delay it even more than the required 3 days for voting.

A way I would find even better would be to not have any way of declaring war but instead a list of things we'd consider acts of war (like grieving, harbouring grievers or thieves and such) and if any of those would happen we would consider the other side to have declared war on us.

Minor criticism:
Treasury report and such seem important enough to publish more often than every 2 or 3 months (I'd prefer more like every 2 weeks or monthly).

As it is, mostly due to the low requirements of declaring war, I vote against law II ("nay").

[theTrav]

I think the requirements in 3.1 are way to low, I'd say at least 2/3 of the vote and proof of some kind of provocation.

Agreed

Also requiring the chieftain to propose a declaration of war shouldn't be required in my opinion, in the rare case war is justified it might be important to act fast, a chieftain that is offline for a few days might delay it even more than the required 3 days for voting.

How about the Chieftain or one of his hirdsmen? That's three people and allows the Chieftain control one of the most important parts of foreign policy. Now I think about it, he should also be allowed to veto a proposal by a hirdsman.

A way I would find even better would be to not have any way of declaring war but instead a list of things we'd consider acts of war (like grieving, harbouring grievers or thieves and such) and if any of those would happen we would consider the other side to have declared war on us.

I believe there's a mention of criteria not being applied if the other side declares on us. Perhaps we need a third path where the chieftain or his hirdsmen declare us in a state of war for cases where the other side has shown substantial aggression but not declared? Seems a bit like it would be a cheap way of avoiding the public vote though...

Treasury report and such seem important enough to publish more often than every 2 or 3 months (I'd prefer more like every 2 weeks or monthly).

I believe Yolan was attempting to save me from working myself to death, however if I'm keeping strict records (which I should be) the extra step of producing a report should be minimal effort... I am a programmer after all.

[Fluffy]

I vote "AYE" for the laws. They look good, to me.


edit: Didn't see the "This requirement is waved if war was first declared on Brodgar by a foreign faction" in 3.1. >.>

EDIT edit: I do believe there needs to be a temporary chieftain system, though. If the chieftain is missing or can't log on for a few days said chieftan should be able to appoint a temporary chieftain. The temporary chieftain would be pre-appointed, in the event that the chieftain is killed or put in a situation where he can't contact anyone else and let them know where he is.

[Yolan]

Hmm. I do think there are some good points raised here. I am happy to consider re-tabling this law for review (if it passes) once some kind of war code is actually implemented by the devs, and/or we have some kind of military force worthy of the name.

Also, I think in the future I will post laws for public comment for a couple of days before asking for a vote. Often I have no problem with comments raised, and think (yeah, that is a good idea), but the vote is already underway, and I'd rather not have to restart the process all over again. Hmm.

[Etienne]

A way I would find even better would be to not have any way of declaring war but instead a list of things we'd consider acts of war (like grieving, harbouring grievers or thieves and such) and if any of those would happen we would consider the other side to have declared war on us.

I believe there's a mention of criteria not being applied if the other side declares on us. Perhaps we need a third path where the chieftain or his hirdsmen declare us in a state of war for cases where the other side has shown substantial aggression but not declared? Seems a bit like it would be a cheap way of avoiding the public vote though...

I actually sugested that to prevent an offensive war (I first thought I'd vote against any law allowing war but then I realised the possibility that some other city might at some point protect thieves or grievers). In general any war is probably gonna be to our disadvantage (generally wars are to all sides' disavantage) but in some cases it might be the lesser of two evils (mostly war with another city or continue to be stolen from/griefed).

[Yolan]

The thing is, we just don't know how world politics might develop in the future. If we get some code implemented, such that people in a village at war with another village can kill said people without leaving scents... well, I think that would change the mentality of a lot of people right away. Even the threat of war would be enough to make a lot of people thinking more seriously about self defense, and the potential benefit of taking iron/gold/silver mines by force, etc.

I really do hope Brodgar will be able to avoid getting embroiled in any kind of stuff like that, but then, maybe in the future, as a large and strong town, we might be in a role to help protect weaker villages from raiders.

So yeah, the two sides to consider with the Chieftains power to declare war are on the one hand, making sure the Chieftain can't just do as he likes in this regard, dragging citizens into a dangerous situation against their will, and on the other hand, being able to respond quickly to a threat before its too late...

Keep in mind that we can always reform any particular law in the future to take into account a different world situation.

[Yolan]

Citizens of Brodgar, I present to you a third law for your consideration.

VOTING: AYE OR NAY

CLOSING DATE: 14 days (IRL) hence.

Only votes from those living in or nearby Brodgar, who consider themselves a citizen, please. In the near future, I will put forward a census law so we can better secure the foundations of this democracy. It is a little bit of reverse chicken and egg, but that is unavoidable.


===LAW III - PERTAINING TO TAX LEVIES ON MINING OPERATIONS===

1) In the case that the city of Brodgar owns control over a mining operation, or control over a section of a mine, it may charge a tax on citizens who wish to use it, with the proceeds going directly to the Brodgar treasury.

1.1) The Chieftain of Brodgar has full control to decide the rate of taxation applicable.

1.2) The rate must be publicly announced, with fair warning to any change. Amounts cannot be retroactively demanded from a miner after a tax rate has been changed.

1.3) The Chieftain of Brodgar, being in charge of the treasury of Brodgar, must ensure that taxes from mining operations are properly collected, recorded, and stored.

1.4) Holders of public office are not exempt from paying the mining tax.

[Pacho]

Aye to mining tax law.

[theTrav]

Aye to mining tax law.

[Peter]

Hm... This could have unforeseen consequences... Miners may choose to work in taxless mines in other towns, leaving us with neither tax revenue nor skilled miners. At least, according to prevailing economic theory. In game, I don't expect much change in mining.

Aye to the Mining Tax Law.