The Laws of Brodgar

[Yolan]

I say Nay to the taxation of miners, rather I would like to see taxation of the buyers(buying directly from the mines. The City of Brodgar's government would NOT be taxed for buying from our own mine. Hell, it wouldn't even have to BUY from it.). Taxing the buyers jut seems more efficient than taxing the people working, if we tax the miners we could have strikes, less output, or even no output. Of course, you would have to ask all the miners on their opinion, first.

edit: If the mine was open to citizens of other villages, they could be taxed, but as of now I must say nay.

I'm not sure how this would work at all. What would that practically entail? I don't get it.

Whoever works at one of our mines does so for their own benefit, pays a small amount as a thank you into the towns coffers, end of story. Very efficient. Taxing the buyer however, what would that even mean? Who is the buyer? Who is the seller? Once somebody has some gold out of our mine, we don't keep track of it.

[Fluffy]

I say Nay to the taxation of miners, rather I would like to see taxation of the buyers(buying directly from the mines. The City of Brodgar's government would NOT be taxed for buying from our own mine. Hell, it wouldn't even have to BUY from it.). Taxing the buyers jut seems more efficient than taxing the people working, if we tax the miners we could have strikes, less output, or even no output. Of course, you would have to ask all the miners on their opinion, first.

edit: If the mine was open to citizens of other villages, they could be taxed, but as of now I must say nay.

I'm not sure how this would work at all. What would that practically entail? I don't get it.

Whoever works at one of our mines does so for their own benefit, pays a small amount as a thank you into the towns coffers, end of story. Very efficient. Taxing the buyer however, what would that even mean? Who is the buyer? Who is the seller? Once somebody has some gold out of our mine, we don't keep track of it.

I misunderstood how it worked at the mines, I thought they worked there and kept a small portion, with most of it going to the city.. not the other way around? But by taxing the buyer I mean if somebody out side of the City of Brodgar(say, another city, perhaps) were to buy 10 bars of copper for x amount of coins, they would have to pay x+y%(y being the tax rate) coins. The buyer would be, well, whoever wants to buy from the city. It would work sort of like a tariff on their part.

[Yolan]

Citizens of Brodgar, I present to you the first post oath law for your consideration.

VOTING: AYE OR NAY

CLOSING DATE: 14 days (IRL) hence.

Only votes from those living in or nearby Brodgar, who consider themselves a citizen, please. In the near future, I will put forward a census law so we can better secure the foundations of this democracy. It is a little bit of reverse chicken and egg, but that is unavoidable.


=== LAW I - PERTAINING TO THE OFFICE OF LAWSPEAKER ===

My fellow citizens, 14 days have elapsed.

I vote in favor of the proposed law 1 (or "aye").

methinks aye

I say Aye.

AYE.

I say Aye to both laws.

AYE to both laws...

In accordance with the Oaths of Brodgar, the law is now passed!

[roundedge]

Aye to law II

Aye to law III

[roundedge]

I would like to propose a law that all citizens of brodgar be obligated to accept coins as legitimate currency, and that all trade proposals by citizens of brodgar must include a reasonable price in coins. This may seem debilitating currently, but backing a currency by law would encourage its adoption, and make trade more fluid and common. The only problem is that there could be a huge influx of coins coming into the city from foreigners, but none of them leaving the city, which would reduce the value of coins. Perhaps we could add an addendum like, any foreigner who does not accept coins as legitimate currency will be subject to a trade embargo until they are willing to accept coins. Or else the original law could only apply to citizens of Brodgar, essentially, any trading done between two citizens of brodgar must include the option of one party paying in coins. I would suggest tabling this law after a census has been taken.

[Etienne]

About the mining tax law, I think that either this law should be less specific (not limited to mining) or not exist at all (the tax could be seen as a trade of labour for resources).


And about forcing every citizen to accept coins I don't think that's a good idea at all, the city should encourage people to use it, not force them.

[theTrav]

About the mining tax law, I think that either this law should be less specific (not limited to mining) or not exist at all (the tax could be seen as a trade of labour for resources).

The mines are some of the few resources that the city actually owns. Either Yolan or my alt has the claim on the mine, they are effectively our mines, but we've given them to the city.
There's been a lot of wood and bricks and sweat and tears invested in setting up the mine, the walls, the smelters, the cabin.
There will continue to be work and coins invested in food and tea to keep the miners going.

The only way we can sustain that, as well as keeping the banners marching is to take a portion of what the miners produce.

Yolan and I have already been paying 1/3 of our produce into the city and have barely noticed it in terms of personal wealth. Mining is a REALLY rich gig, you make a lot of cash really easily.

If you want to personally view it as a trade, then that's fair enough, but the terms are non-negotiable and I think having it as a law will make people view their right to work in the mine and their responsibility to pay their dues to the city as more things to take for granted rather than something that's optional.

And about forcing every citizen to accept coins I don't think that's a good idea at all, the city should encourage people to use it, not force them.

Yeah, I also think using coins should be encouraged but can't really be enforced. Best way to do it is to make sure they HAVE a lot of coins, which means getting some minting going, which means mining more metal and getting it taxed.
Current main barriers has been lack of miners and lack of tax law

[Etienne]

I didn't mean not let the people pay at all, more like giving the chieftain the responsibility of managing all city assets (which obviously includes mines but can include any resource owned by the city). I just think tax on mining is not big enough for its own law so I'd personally prefer if it would either be added to the law dealing with the chieftain's responsibilities or if it has to be a seperate law at least one that would include any possible similar situations.

[theTrav]

I just think tax on mining is not big enough for its own law so I'd personally prefer if it would either be added to the law dealing with the chieftain's responsibilities or if it has to be a seperate law at least one that would include any possible similar situations.

Oh, ok now I see where you're coming from.

I guess that boils down to whether you feel the chieftan should be able to decide to tax anything he wants at any rate he wants willy nilly, or whether he should be limited to taxing people on specific things as decided by the majority.

Despite being the current authority I'm in favor of giving less power to the government where possible.