Codexia.

[niltrias]

Yes. You're SO up to speed. What I did had absolutely ZERO effect. I thank you for the compliment that my dramatis persona was at all effective at do anything (other than making drama). Delamore still died. And it hasn't stopped goons one bit from raping and pillaging.

Besides. I only sold out Jorb. I never betrayed any of the specific people I was actually friends with. Including you. Btw. I still have your lembas if you want it back.

Heh, potjeh, I still have two of your lembas as well. Ill give them back to you, since I wont be needing them.

[Lothaudus]

I'm not certain what people are trying to achieve with the argument about griefers. If the game is to have PvP combat and skills that affect that combat, then it stands to reason that regardless of what system is implemented, people who work hard and level up their combat skills are going to come out on top. People are going to die no matter what you do.

There's a certain point where that needs to be accepted as part of the game. Potjeh is slightly correct in that the solution to "the GOON problem" (replace GOON with any large group that decides to go on a murderous rampage) is for other groups to combine their efforts and strike back. However, any group with a large player base to draw from is always going to have an advantage over any other group. And so they should.

Organisation in an MMO is crucial. The question boils down to how much of an advantage they should have and how difficult it should be to attack a town. People are in fact relatively safe in that they can simply "log-out" and provided they've not committed any crimes, be safe from summoning. The attackers take a risk in that their kills will leave scents and with the appropriate skills, organisation and ability, they can be taken out even while offline. Something which has happened.

Being able to build massive fortresses, wall in and never come out might be fun but that will need to be balanced with mechanics that allow people to attack those fortress-like towns. Of course, that also means the most-well organised group will have the best fortress and the best attacking capability. The GOONS, as a well-organised group, should for all intents and purposes be quite able to hold the entire world to ransom should they have the people and the ability to pull it off. No system is going to change that.

Yes, some people will get butthurt and rage quit. Others will try and organise a larger group to fight back. Some will sue for peace. Others run off and hope they can stay away from it all. The politics / fall-out and how people choose to respond to that, I see as an integral part of the game.

But epic day long battles - firing arrows from the battlements of castles as the siege engines batter the walls - would be pretty cool.

[Jackard]

how refreshing, a levelheaded post

[warrri]

You do realise 13 people, including one higher leveled char, were raped by an one day old (if you dont count the afk time macroing to get to full change) char? Anyone who can kill bears, and that is anyone with 50 marksman or 80melee, can make such an alt.
In this game it is not about who has the highest char or the most brickwalls, its about who is really willing to go on a killing spree.

Fortresses with unbreakable walls for a single person would be a really good addition to the whole crime and safety system. It would need planning, siege weapons, resources and time to break a wall, so that the defender can act, rather than counter act and kill the alt by summoning it.

Edit: 14 if you count niltrias, also one higher leveled char, who murdered Foofighter and got summoned, too

[niltrias]

You do realise 13 people, including one higher leveled char, were raped by an one day old (if you dont count the afk time macroing to get to full change) char? Anyone who can kill bears, and that is anyone with 50 marksman or 80melee, can make such an alt.
In this game it is not about who has the highest char or the most brickwalls, its about who is really willing to go on a killing spree.

Fortresses with unbreakable walls for a single person would be a really good addition to the whole crime and safety system. It would need planning, siege weapons, resources and time to break a wall, so that the defender can act, rather than counter act and kill the alt by summoning it.

Edit: 14 if you count niltrias, also one higher leveled char, who murdered Foofighter and got summoned, too

Oh, I wouldnt call that murder. And I had to move my Hfire to the SW grid before I could finally get killed and go off full trad.

Edit for the smiley

[Justicar]

Heh, gotta love it when people with the broad experience of zero minutes spent in PVP come lecturing about its nuances.

On a more serious note, nothing wrong about enabling player versus player - it's part of the charm. What we have currently, however, is just ridiculous.

O.K., someone who has spent majority of their time honing the fighting skills should be notably better than a normal peasant. On the other hand, does it make any sense that such a player can kill a village full of moderately experienced players who've spread their points more broadly?

From observing the past raids from afar, this is how PVP in H&H currently goes:

- Raiders come on boat, start shooting all the newbies they see, killing them where they stand
- Higher level chars in the town instantly log out
- After initial looting (and finding the town empty), invaders hide behind houses and palisades and wait for other players to log in
- If somebody logs in, they are killed where they stand (before the interface even loads up)
- Surviving townsfolk alert others to not log in, raiders get bored and leave

Extremely exiting, eh?

Defenders have zero incentive to actually try to push the attackers out. Raids turn into looting, combat skills are only used as deterrent.

So what could/should be changed (IMNSHO);

1. Killing in self defense inside claimed land should not leave a murder scent!
2. Summoned players should fight back/chase the summoner
3. There should be a short window of immortality for players who log in
4. A player who has engaged in criminal activities should not be able to teleport away. Put a cool down of five minutes or something to prevent them from hearthing away afterward
5. There should be some sort of passive defense available to towns. Traps, guard dogs/bears, AI controlled militia etc.
6. Some form of (high cost) alarm system that alerts offline players that the town is under attack

In ideal situation I'd see the entire town fighting against the invading force. How to accomplish this in a PVP environment is a different thing. Maybe make murder harder inside claim whilst kinsmen are alive?

[Jackard]

Heh, gotta love it when people with the broad experience of zero minutes spent in PVP come lecturing about its nuances.

i agree with you for the most part but if i didnt know beforehand that this forum didnt keep track of the actual date you joined, this line would be pretty funny

[niltrias]

i agree with you for the most part but this approaches delicious irony

You know, Jackard, it flat out scares me how often I agree with you.

[Jackard]

it treats your first post as the date you joined, not when you actually signed up

/end stupid tangent

[niltrias]

it treats your first post as the date you joined

I was not being sarcastic.