New Brodgar?

[vikingdragons]

Look, i am new, but i read some of the whole Brodgar! post, and to be honest, i kinda new it wouldn't work, even before I realized i was right and it had died. But the general idea of a real place for newbs isnt a bad idea! Just set up real law and order, and dont bother with democracy. Democracy=everyone and their grandma has a vote in EVERYTHING, which=a total shitstorm of stupidity. If there will really be a Brodgar Town, then it will need to be much more of a tutorial/temporary shelter for newbs, who will move out when they now how to play. If it will be a newb place, then it cant be a place for ppl with good set ups, and it most certainly cant be a place for crime. Have rangers keep an eye on it, although their shouldn't be a whole lot of valubables around in the first place. Consider it, but don't right in, or we wind up with the old Brodgar Town.

[Avu]

Ah the innocence of the young.

[Yolan]

Hiya Vikingdragon.

I'll respond directly seeming as you have been kind enough to read through that massive thread.

I don't consider Brodgar to have failed in the main way predicted when I first floated the idea and then went ahead of it. There was some smirking about how we would all be constantly griefed to death, etc. etc. That really didn't eventuate. What _did_ happen was that the major people behind it got tired of the game and did other things. H&H is still in alpha after all, and Brodgar was only ever an experiment.

Having said that, what did I learn?

Well, certainly not that democracy doesn't work as a system. I think I was getting carried away with the laws myself, which opens a person up to burnout by taking on too many responsibilities. But there's no reason why you can't have a basic code and periodic elections to determined leaders. In fact, I think that if you want to have a real city you will need to have some kind of structure like that to keep things dynamic. Players will come and go online much faster than IRL, so you gotta have a system that can roll with disappearances and keep moving.

Another lesson well learned; design. I had hopes of a high density inner city area, surrounded by farms, and so right from the start pushed for quite compact living space. This ended up not working so well, partially because the village code available does not yet allow for the kind of fine adjustments necessary. This should change in the future. To the possible founders of a future Brodgar, I say : go for a large grid of _wide_ roads. Make uniform sized lots that have enough room for a little farm and a house. Say, 10 to 16 times the size of a wooden cottage. One person per lot. One vote per person per lot. Each person has their own wall, their own key, their own claim. Only other thing you want is a well, a central square for trade and signposts, and thats it.

Finally, I'd just like to add that a lot of people, myself included, enjoyed/enjoy this game for the player interaction. I reckon not everybody actually _wants_ to live out somewhere in the wilderness. Some people would prefer to be with lots of other people. It's a completely valid playing style, and offers benefits as well as restrictions, just like irl.

Cheers,

-Yolan

[vikingdragons]

ah, thnks for replying Yolan. And you are right, those kind of problems can and will kill a community. People don't like being cramped up in tiny spaces, and they most definitly dont like to share EVERYTHING with EVERYONE. I believe that was also a problem with the old Brodgar, people taking lots of high qualtity stuff and replacing them with a few low quality, and stuff like that. Lastly, I have no intentions of STARTING the new brodgar, because i dont have the experience or knowledge, and besides, i prefer simple, quick , and brutal over complicated, slow, and peace...wow, i actaully had a hard time just typing that kind of decisio making

[theTrav]

hi vikingdragons,

As Yolan said, the city didn't fail due to griefing. We were less griefed than many other less public villages.

The city mainly failed due to population bleed. People primarily left for two resons:
1 - Too much established and abandoned junk in their way
2 - No high quality resources in the area

Those people who left weren't replaced fast enough, for a variety of reasons, a big one of those would be poor village management tools (I had a fair few people who I just couldn't add to the village).

Fixing those mechanical issues with the game would make it more viable to have a public village, fixing some of the design considerations that Yolan spoke about space wise would also make it easier.

There is also the possibility that people just aren't interested in playing within an established infrastructure. Quite a few people were far more interested in building up their own town rather than joining an existing one, which is fair enough. Building is often more fun than using existing stuff

[sabinati]

brogdar might have done a bit better if there had been a mine right there as well. then again, maybe not.

[theTrav]

I'm still not convinced that a mine is good for anything more than perception of wealth...
Metal has always been available via trade, the prices were never unreasonably bad in my experience

[Yolan]

Originally when Brodgar was founded at the start of the current world, the travel system was also not what it is now. I myself was under the impression that the RoB was there to stay, and that river transport was really going to become a major way of getting from the inner civilised areas to the outer world. What happened was a long long time of no boats, and when they were imped, a signpost system plus a wilderness spawning system, etc., that makes a city next to a river not so important. What the river did do was cramp growth in two directions though.

I think a strong point of kind of city Brodgar was an experiment in was that it allowed for both community living + independence and personal activity. A lot of villages have totally shared resources, fields, etc. I think thats fine, but for really big towns, I think Brodgars model is a good one. That is, let everybody have their own bit of land to do what they choose with, have all kinds of different farms, crafting areas, etc. Then let people trade amongst eachother for what they want.

So, a new world in two weeks. Guys, I wouldn't mind logging on helping get another Brodgar started then, although I don't want any leadership position as I am busy IRL.

If anybody is interested in being head organiser that would be cool. We really need to find a big open space, and lay out a massive grid of wide roads. Those would be the arteries that can keep things flowing and interesting for a long long time.

My new city design mantra: Keep it simple, keep it accessible.

Have a central square, largeish lots spreading outwards in a grid of criss-crossing roads equally spaced that can be continually expanded. Anybody who wants to live there could swap/buy an existing spot, or simply add one to the outer edge that follows the existing size restrictions. Pretty much idiot proof.

[Jackard]

My new city design mantra: Keep it simple, keep it accessible.

Have a central square, largeish lots spreading outwards in a grid of criss-crossing roads equally spaced that can be continually expanded.

thats what ive always gone for. i didnt like chernobyl much because it was laid out like a house and there was a lot of clutter. its much better to set up a village square around your idol or landmark and then set up spokes leading from there, to form streets for traffic

[Nanothnir]

Well I wouldn't mind making a simple city for Newbs and those that just want to help them. A few minutes in Paint got me this plan. There is a few (easy to follow) rules though for this city to work...


http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v630/LeonNeco/Grid.jpg
Key.
Black Tiles - Road.
Yellow Tiles - Building (5x5 is a Cabin, 8x8 is a Mansion)
Red - Idol
Green - Zone boarders.

1. Until Cabins are able to be deconstructed, no additional Cabins can be built. NOR can any Mansions can be built...
2. You are given a certain amount of land to call your own, other then rule 1, you may do with it as you will, if wanting to expand the area, you will need to offer something worthwhile (to that of the person you are trading with) so that you may extend into their area and they are able to move out...
3. Even if the area has not been given to a newb, or that the previous owner has just recently moved out on their own accord are you allowed to extend.
4. At max you are only allowed to own 4 Zones.
5. If you are experienced, or advanced, you are considered a teacher and aid to those new to the game, teach, inform and hand down knowledge and goods that may be low quality to you, but better then what they have now.
6. If all area's are taken, construction of a new grid will be built for you and those who need it. If you decide to act first, do not step out of the system as this will disrupt anything useful from the city.
7. If at any time you feel that you don't want to be here any more or that of someone else wishes to leave, support and aid should be given so that they can move on.
8. The Mansions to the North of the idol, and the lands around it, are for Mass Dumping of any item, tool or movable construction that you wish to no longer possess, leaving them there will allow others to gain the tools and things needed to grow faster. A number of useful Crops will be grown in Public Fields, if you harvest from them, replace them.
9. Please remember Rule 1, if you want more storage, build leantos for movable items that can be stored inside them, otherwise look to purchase the nextdoor neighbors zone.
10. Treat others the way you wish to be treated.

Anyone wanna help me build it???