World's End - Your New Home?

[ARCHIVE FOR WORLDS 1&2]Forum for discussing in game politics, village relations and matters of justice.

World's End - Your New Home?

Postby Yolan » Mon Jun 14, 2010 11:35 am

World's End is an aspiring city in an outer rim super grid.

All citizens are allocated a 25x25 plot to do what they wish with. Their time is also their own, save that all citizens are expected to assist in building an maintaining the walls that protect us all.

A massive 71x71 square stands in the center of World's End. All citizens are welcome to place a stall there to sell their goods. Iron coins are bring produced by our mint to get this market economy going.

We also have our own forum, and a ventrillo channel.

Most importantly, I think, is that we aim to be a big city. Hopefully dozens and dozens of citizens. This is perhaps what will make it a very interesting place to live at.

Please see the thread on World's End in the 'Inn of Brodgar' to find out more about our city.

REQUIREMENTS: As far as skills, none. We are not an elite city. We welcome, but do not require, strong players. In fact, you might actually wish to make a new character with us. As mentioned above, your time is your own, so we are not recruiting people for various roles. Supply and demand, and player ingenuity, are what we are relying on to sort things out. Please contact me if you are interested.

Edit: This has been overlooked by a few people, so I will put in bold and expand: I must require that you have a some kind of history on this forum, so I can check to see that you have a decent reputation. PM's coming from people with accounts made within the last few days/weeks will probably be ignored.
Last edited by Yolan on Wed Jun 16, 2010 10:40 am, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: World's End - Your New Home?

Postby Killawatt » Tue Jun 15, 2010 4:22 am

Out of curiousity, exactly where in the outer grids are you located? I'm personally located in the furthest north-eastern corner of the map, and I was curious as to your distance so if I ever need to do some trading I know where to look.
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Re: World's End - Your New Home?

Postby Yolan » Tue Jun 15, 2010 5:12 am

Its not exactly a closely held secret, but I'm not about to make it any more public than necessary, for obvious reasons. ;-)
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Re: World's End - Your New Home?

Postby Thijssnl » Tue Jun 15, 2010 5:53 pm

I sense an epic fail here, systems like this dont work. Sorry and good luck anyway
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Re: World's End - Your New Home?

Postby Chakravanti » Tue Jun 15, 2010 6:39 pm

Systems like this haven't worked. As has been pointed out before they know why. They're trying to make it work because it would be an excellent way of doing government and villaging for newbies who have and desire no real affiliation.

The two problems with this are, firstly, international affairs. Not that they can't be conducted but that there should be an agreement for members on international conduct and actions that will be or more importantly will be allowed as consequences.

The second being claim size. In the beginning, we (Sodom) were lazy and decided on 35x35 instead of 45x45. I have found this to be workable but slightly restrictive. I can grow just a little bit more than what I otherwise play to feed myself using HALF decent tables (%50 hunger roughly). Claims should be modular and cities need not be symmetrical but rather that attention should be given to modes of travel and that main highways can be had as preferable to all streets being identical and then block sizes should be fairly navigatable and claim sizes can be different as a matter of course and desire or contribution. 25x25 is a good minimalist claim size. More active players will desire a 35x35.

The reason for this is that farming is the best way to produce food before one can kill cows/sheep and even then a carnivorous diet is limited for charecter development which will be dependant upon crops to gain most FEP's until deer and boar can be had.

I don't play that much but I still find that when I do I easily burn through my crops in an average rate of character development. Someone playing much as i do with a shitty table should be helped out by a decent community regardless of your structyure with such things so that the community can support the development of new members as a benefit of joining as growth begins to be substantial and that such sustainable development and recruitment is crucial to the nature of the type of village which will be modular. The fundamental expansion of a village now relies almost soley on banners and the communities linen production. Steel is not necessary for claims the way it was before. Therefore some sort of community effort toward the management of a massive linen field must be part of the village structure or included as a member's resonsibility and thus magnifying even further the crop demands of a singular resident's allocation.

Just my thoughts because tbh Yolan I don't care what they say about you ( ;) :lol: ) I really admire you and the trav for continuously trying to make this work. The server population growing as it is I really believe that a community with a strong sense of land ownership and written government system with clear distinction of rights of property ownership are whatr this game is truly about. I believe Jorb will concur with me and repeat my admiration for your endeavors given his repeated statement for his belief in the right of land onwership which is in essence, a philsophy you are endorsing and establishing with this sort of governemnt.

Indeed sodom operates much the same with a fixed point of operation as of community interest.

It throughly occurs to me that well developed players can readily provide lots of wine as a presense to isolation the idol and making extensive use of the travel system to allow players to use the idol as a point of reference for travel about the city so that they can always port to the idol and subsequentrly port ot their section of the city with enough roiom to lay down a carried boat and take a sip of the communal wine. :lol: and grab their materials and be on their way to their own claim. I could see have an extensive an localized series of destinations in this isolated area and consideration for their convenient access should be given when constructing this near the idol area.

Lastly there should be a 'central' community area for such things as a mine and a big ass hemp field.

This 'central' community area need not ACTUALLY be AT the idol. In fact only the crossroad network need be.

This 'network' dictates that signs must be an inconvenient distance from plots and that keys must be used. Gatekeeper alts make this *possible* until a better access management system is devised...

BUT!

It dictates that such gatekeepers be defended by a palisade plus. External to claims, individuals must be protected from externals by palisade+ for this system of modular barrier defenses to be practical for modern security concerns. I recommend extensive use of the travel system to move between boundaries making the central network of crossroads even more critical.

-EDITS-
The 'market place' itself should be palisaded off and access granted via crossroads only. You might even consider creating both a 'public' and a 'private' marketplace. Both of which access to should be via crossroads only.

It further occurs to me that travellers with wagons may desire access to your market place. Security for their materials should be considered and a system of providing that should be created. Perhaps even charged for. However if you wish modern civilization then a system of coinage is inevitable and should be made available to the most newbie members (of the MARKETPLACE). As such a system of taxation could be implemented which would require members to submit a regular report on international business transactions to whicha tax is applied that reflects the community cost of accomodating travellers. Such a budget should be made public to the citizenship and a private forum should probably be managed with tiers of access to certain forums and a dedicated admin who can regularly review discussion and make regular updates to lesser forums with essential information from those above.

-/end EDITS-
Each claim will need extensive use of, and thus attendance by governement officials, private crossroads present on personal claims with probably dozens of crossroads because form time to time private parties will wish to exchange sign between other private parties. Government officials should also be well versed in the nature of crossroad building and that any such private exchanges need to have their own post. This makes post construction dominate a large portion of an indivudal's claim. 6-5 tiles avg I predict depending on the number of 'friends' and individual accumulates. 2-3 minimum for essential travel functions.

Good Luck. I indeed, as I said before, admire your strength of heart and courage in attempting to make this sort of thing work. As time goes by and I gain strength and skills as I feel kind of noobish atm since I haven't really spent a lot of time in this world I may even beseech you for citizenship and Diplomatic relations if you prove your village a worthy trading partner and I do believe you can. So please take all of this with the understanding that I mean all of this criticism with respect, admiration and even love because I place such value on the way you have consistently tried to uphold modern values of a respectable nation and government with the rights of citizenship and property ownership.

Once again you have my best wishes.

Some edits hit me...=D
Well what is this that I can't see
With ice cold hands takin' hold of me
Well I am death, none can excel
-Ralph Stanley, O Death!
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Re: World's End - Your New Home?

Postby Chakravanti » Tue Jun 15, 2010 7:09 pm

Okay, I have to make one more point. That Security CANNOT be held for mine access and the most critical game objects that need to be processed there: Jorbonzola/MBC.

Making Mine access a v ery valubale and trust based thing. It is entirely possible that you may grant access to MBC production only to players who have earned a certain rank and that a seperate mine with independant security could be allocation for this purpose.

This could in fact involve a sizable contribution or even just a 'deposit' (which would involve extensive finacial documentation) to secure access. Required investment should reflect the value of the one who has the most value invested (and thus, the most to lose).

Jorb production (and thus MBC) becomes entirely a trust based endeavor in a village and community that has land ownership distinction & etc. It is contradictory to the core but reflect the value of belonging to a community. (despite how easy it is for an independent to establish themselves upon a cave if not a mine for access to regular MBC).
Well what is this that I can't see
With ice cold hands takin' hold of me
Well I am death, none can excel
-Ralph Stanley, O Death!
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Re: World's End - Your New Home?

Postby Yolan » Wed Jun 16, 2010 8:39 am

Thank you for that post. A lot more useful than saying "these kinds of things don't work" without explaining what kinds of things, or why.

So far things are going well. We do indeed intend to focus a lot of attention on getting a lot of trade stalls up and people exchanging goods freely in that fashion on a large scale. Mine access is also restricted to those we can trust.

Regarding plot size, I agree that its a bit small for active players, while suitable for more middling/less active types like myself. Currently I'm in favour of the city 'renting' excess plots on a provisional basis to busy farmers, where they can raise certain crops, cows, what have you (just not go and build heaps of junk).

Regarding politics, both domestic and international. I am rather heartened and interested in the potential that lies here. With the first Brodgar however, I got a bit carried away with this, and started formulating laws and things before we really had a functioning city. Without an actual working group of active players and some kind of economic activity, there is very little need to go around writing things up and having committees. My thoughts now is that the city comes first, and politics will develop as the city becomes an actual 'polis' that contains more than a handful active, thoughtful players. In preparation for this potential development, I have established a city forum. I'm not going to force anything, but it is my hope that if our population starts to push 30, 40 or 50 active players, we will start to have reason to talk about elections, laws, foreign policy, etc. Until then, I'm just plowing out plots and vetting immigrants. ;-)

EDIT: Oh, I should also point out that theTrav is not with us on this particular venture. Although I certainly would love it if he immigrated.
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Re: World's End - Your New Home?

Postby Chakravanti » Wed Jun 16, 2010 8:48 am

Well in the beginning perhaps all you might desire in the form of documentation is a ledger to track member's submissions, agenda and list of require materials.
Well what is this that I can't see
With ice cold hands takin' hold of me
Well I am death, none can excel
-Ralph Stanley, O Death!
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Re: World's End - Your New Home?

Postby johnsmith » Wed Jun 16, 2010 1:34 pm

Yolan,

Keep in mind that the server can only handle 300-400 max at a time. when you talk of a large city I too would like to see it, even help build it. A concentration of 50-60+ players in one spot seems like too many in one spot. This is a very large map with a lot of resources, I currently am able to handle a 367,000k village alone (not completely effective and it consumes vast amounts of time) but the plots that have been mentioned are a bit too small and no matter what sized city is formed in this current world some form of assignment of labor has to be dictated to some degree. I have no perfect solution and maybe the suggestions made are the best so far, I do wish you good luck though.

I did PM you about joining, however I also have temporarily declined (see my previous posts). Maybe in the future I might be able to contribute to this endeavor if you are willing.
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Re: World's End - Your New Home?

Postby Thijssnl » Wed Jun 16, 2010 1:38 pm

Yolan wrote:Thank you for that post. A lot more useful than saying "these kinds of things don't work" without explaining what kinds of things, or why.


Yah, funny thing is I myself as leader and founder of an idea/city like that wouldnt need/want any help, since if you dont even know how to run it, why start.
You shouldnt need critisism if you think you can handle such a village.
Also, I'm not a good writer like Chak is so, sorry, and like I said earlier, good luck.
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