why the hell do all the idiots always assume that imprisonment also means slaves, no ability to kill yourself, and a bunch of other shit they just make up even thought it wasn't even suggested.
kidnapping can be dead simple, and probably could be coded and implemented in a week in my opinion. you knock a guy out, right click a rope on him. he is essentially dead. you can now move him around like a animal carcass, and the body has a right click option to kill or untie. The account owner gets put back to his log in screen as if he died but now he has an option of killing himself. Other than killing himself he can try and get his village to get him released. If he is untied, it will be as if he was summoned, and he will log out if not engaged in combat. The account owner can then log in at his hearth or village like normal. if the captors dont release him and kill him, its just a normal kill.
thats pretty dead simple to me, and has no negatives to it.
Crime and Punishment
27 posts
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Re: Crime and Punishment
by DeadlyPencil » Tue Sep 28, 2010 6:06 am
- DeadlyPencil
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Re: Crime and Punishment
by BWithey » Tue Sep 28, 2010 6:31 pm
On the matter of Crime and Punishment, aside from being an excellent novel by Mr. Fyodor Dostoyevsky, is a matter that this game needs to implement in ways beyond those currently involved.
All the suggestions so far have been, to my mind, excellent, though a couple of points do need to be addressed.
1 - In no way should an individual be able to be branded as a thief, vandal, traitor, or any other universal title of this sort. This is a game about society, socialization, and community in a way many many others are not. In this specific instance communication of the villain should be player by player. However, this does provide us with an interesting mechanic, namely:
The Wanted Poster
A wanted poster can be created by anyone with the lawspeaker ability, someone who is 'known' to them, and a scent. The scent would then be used in conjunction with a parchment to create a "<name> wanted for <Crime Scent indicates> by authority of 'Village'". The resulting parchment could be copied like any other parchment, and then used in conjunction with a stick to create a 'wanted sign' that could be placed in the ground. By right clicking the wanted sign, a player could 'memorize' the character in question just as if they were standing there. (In the event that the person on the sign is someone they know, it would override the name on the sign.
The name on the sign is specifically tied to the name the player knows for the character. Additionally, the player would have the option to 'take warrant' if they possess the [Law Enforcement] skill. Wanted Signs/Posters do *NOT* have a hit-box, preventing them from being used for griefing. Also, these Signs/Posters cannot be posted within x tiles of another one for the same crime/victim. Law-speakers must know the name of the offending party (have them memorized) to create the sign.
Certain problems exist here, the first being that, at present, scents have no names directly tied to them. I'm not sure how to address this other than somehow giving the ability for an identity to be determined, or the person having to be observed committing the crime. Additionally (not instead of) the scents could be marked once the perpetrators hearth fire has been located. This could be useful in those events that you want the individual punished, but lack the strength to do so yourself. You could track them down to attach name to scent, and then put out a warrant.
A message can also be attached to the wanted poster of the same length as those put on Runestones or Parchment. Wanted signs decay like any other structure.
The Warrant(s)
The Warrant would permit the character, upon finding the villains hearth-fire, to act in the same manner as if they possessed a scent. It gives no ability to track the player, merely an ability to act if the players hearth-fire is discovered. This is most useful in those cases where 'summoning' the player can be used. There can be different types of warrants, for example:
Warrant of Arrest:
Useful for those who have stolen, trespassed, or vandlized property, and optionally for those who have committed battery (It can be this one or the following that is issued). This allows the carrying character to perform an arrest if they have the proposed [Law Enforcement] ability, securing the villain for transport back to the reporting authority. The character must transport the offending character back to the place where the warrant was issued, just as if they were live-stock. (With the exception that they could be put in a boat, rather than requiring a raft). This allows the character to engage the opponent as if they had the Rage skill. The trip *MUST* be completed before logging out, or the villain gets away again. (this is to prevent players from abusing this by taking days to return someone, who will then be punished for days upon arrival).
Warrant of Execution:
In the event that the crime was one of sufficient magnitude, (Say battery or murder), a warrant of execution can be issued from the wanted sign. This permits the character to attack and murder the offending player, even without possessing the Murder skill. Upon locating the characters hearth-fire, they could be summoned and assaulted, as per normal use of the scent. If they successfully kill the offending player, they receive 'Head of [so-and-so]" as a result, the law-speaker who issued the warrant is notified that the warrant has been fulfilled, and all wanted signs and posters immediately disappear. The head is then available to turn into the law-speaker who issued the order to prove that you did, in fact, fulfill the contract. If someone is killed under a warrant of execution, a further 20% LP penalty is incurred upon reincarnation. (So someone with full Trad would only get 55% back rather than 75%) Someone killing a criminal while holding a warrant of execution leaves neither battery nor murder scents when doing so.
2 - On Punishment
This idea:
Trespassing: 24 real hours or 3 in game days.
Theft: 72 (3 days) RL hours or 6 in game days.
Vandalism: 168 RL hours (7 days) or 21 days in game.
Battery: 336 RL hours (14 days) or 42 days in game.
Murder: 772 RL hours (28 days) or 84 days in game.
Note: In the event of Battery/Murder, the charges are pardoned if imprisonment is chosen as the method of punishment rather than execution. One cannot imprison the character first, and then kill them at the end of the imprisonment. (Well, one can, but they will incur a scent of murder by doing so). To those who may complain about the durations listed, in the event of the murder of High LP characters, you could be costing them this much time OR MORE, so the punishment is equitable, and as mentioned above, saves you from execution.
On the login after the punishment duration is over, the criminal may choose to teleport back to the last location of their hearth fire (Even if it's been destroyed since, the only time this can happen), or to the charterstone of the town where they were punished.
3 - On imprisonment
The Stocks: Stocks can be built only on village property, and only someone currently in custody can be assigned to the stocks. Stocks can be made from wood, rope, and glue. Players may attempt to escape from the stocks once per IC day, which involves a (Strength & Dexterity) related test against some value determined by the quality of the stocks. Failure means they remain and cannot attempt again for another 8 RL hours, success means the stocks are broken (To damaged to be used without repair) and a 'Scent of Escape' is left. Stocks can only hold one criminal at a time. Obviously, no form of fast transport can be used while in this state.
The Gaol: A wooden structure that can be used to hold up to 4 people. All functions for escaping and assisting escape apply, with one exception. A successful escape attempt merely damages the structure, it does not render it 'unusable without repair'. In the event that the damage renders it 'unusable without repair' all prisoners are immediately successful if they attempt escape again. Escape attempts from this structure are harder than those from the Stocks, and less likely to be successful.
The Prison: As above, but can hold 8 people, and is built with bricks and metal. Prisons are nearly impossible to escape without assistance, and even with assistance it's quite difficult.
4- Errata:
Assisting Escape:
Someone can attempt to assist with escape in two ways. The character may select 'Assist Escape' to attempt to help the individual escape, essentially giving the villain a free escape attempt in an 8 hour period. Successful or not this will leave a scent called "Traitorous Scent of the Accomplice", see below for more information on this. An assisted escape takes the relevant stats and skills from both characters into account when determining the chance of escape. A character may also attempt to destroy the imprisoning device, this will leave both "Traitorous Scent of the Accomplice" and "Scent of Vandalism" behind.
Scent of Escape: Left when a player successfully evades imprisonment (with or without help). The Scent is labelled "Scent of Escape (Severity)" where severity can equal, in this order: Theft, Vandalism, Battery, Murder. The severity is determined by "Severity of the Crime the Player was Imprisoned for +1 level of severity", so someone on the stocks for trespassing who escapes, will leave behind a "Scent of Escape (Theft)", which can be used to create a 'Wanted Poster' for that severity.
Traitorous Scent of the Accomplice: Left when a player assists an imprisoned player in escaping from their imprisoning device, successful or no. A stronger scent is left if this is successful (By leaving more scents). Like any other crime, this can be used to create a wanted poster. A Traitorous Scent of the Accomplice has a severity rating equal to the crime the player committed to be imprisoned +1, as per Scent of Escape.
5 - In closing, this post was the matter of a few minutes cogitation followed by further thought as it was typed out. It is likely to possess holes. I for one strongly support the idea of real punishments for the crime, ones that affect the player more than a mere LP loss. This is no WoW, this is no EQII, or any other MMO where death by another player is a mere inconvenience.
I wanted to address these two comments more specifically:
Not only does it take away control from a player (Bad): This is not bad, aside from the act of playing the game, the character you assaulted generally had little control over the crime committed against them. This is especially true in a game where it's even POSSIBLE for a single entity to destroy a palisade, or a building, in a few hits without any other assistance than a weapon and a battering ram. The only policing technique that matters is taking away the ability of the other player to play the offending character.
It's also controlled by other players (Double bad): In this game, 'controlled by the players' is rather a mantra. When you batter or kill someone, you leave a scent that allows they or others to summon you to your hearthfire whether you're logged in or not. This is in the control of the other player, this is precedent for this kind of justice system.
All the suggestions so far have been, to my mind, excellent, though a couple of points do need to be addressed.
1 - In no way should an individual be able to be branded as a thief, vandal, traitor, or any other universal title of this sort. This is a game about society, socialization, and community in a way many many others are not. In this specific instance communication of the villain should be player by player. However, this does provide us with an interesting mechanic, namely:
The Wanted Poster
A wanted poster can be created by anyone with the lawspeaker ability, someone who is 'known' to them, and a scent. The scent would then be used in conjunction with a parchment to create a "<name> wanted for <Crime Scent indicates> by authority of 'Village'". The resulting parchment could be copied like any other parchment, and then used in conjunction with a stick to create a 'wanted sign' that could be placed in the ground. By right clicking the wanted sign, a player could 'memorize' the character in question just as if they were standing there. (In the event that the person on the sign is someone they know, it would override the name on the sign.
The name on the sign is specifically tied to the name the player knows for the character. Additionally, the player would have the option to 'take warrant' if they possess the [Law Enforcement] skill. Wanted Signs/Posters do *NOT* have a hit-box, preventing them from being used for griefing. Also, these Signs/Posters cannot be posted within x tiles of another one for the same crime/victim. Law-speakers must know the name of the offending party (have them memorized) to create the sign.
Certain problems exist here, the first being that, at present, scents have no names directly tied to them. I'm not sure how to address this other than somehow giving the ability for an identity to be determined, or the person having to be observed committing the crime. Additionally (not instead of) the scents could be marked once the perpetrators hearth fire has been located. This could be useful in those events that you want the individual punished, but lack the strength to do so yourself. You could track them down to attach name to scent, and then put out a warrant.
A message can also be attached to the wanted poster of the same length as those put on Runestones or Parchment. Wanted signs decay like any other structure.
The Warrant(s)
The Warrant would permit the character, upon finding the villains hearth-fire, to act in the same manner as if they possessed a scent. It gives no ability to track the player, merely an ability to act if the players hearth-fire is discovered. This is most useful in those cases where 'summoning' the player can be used. There can be different types of warrants, for example:
Warrant of Arrest:
Useful for those who have stolen, trespassed, or vandlized property, and optionally for those who have committed battery (It can be this one or the following that is issued). This allows the carrying character to perform an arrest if they have the proposed [Law Enforcement] ability, securing the villain for transport back to the reporting authority. The character must transport the offending character back to the place where the warrant was issued, just as if they were live-stock. (With the exception that they could be put in a boat, rather than requiring a raft). This allows the character to engage the opponent as if they had the Rage skill. The trip *MUST* be completed before logging out, or the villain gets away again. (this is to prevent players from abusing this by taking days to return someone, who will then be punished for days upon arrival).
Warrant of Execution:
In the event that the crime was one of sufficient magnitude, (Say battery or murder), a warrant of execution can be issued from the wanted sign. This permits the character to attack and murder the offending player, even without possessing the Murder skill. Upon locating the characters hearth-fire, they could be summoned and assaulted, as per normal use of the scent. If they successfully kill the offending player, they receive 'Head of [so-and-so]" as a result, the law-speaker who issued the warrant is notified that the warrant has been fulfilled, and all wanted signs and posters immediately disappear. The head is then available to turn into the law-speaker who issued the order to prove that you did, in fact, fulfill the contract. If someone is killed under a warrant of execution, a further 20% LP penalty is incurred upon reincarnation. (So someone with full Trad would only get 55% back rather than 75%) Someone killing a criminal while holding a warrant of execution leaves neither battery nor murder scents when doing so.
2 - On Punishment
This idea:
, is generally true for most MMO's. This is not most MMO's, this is a game with a player policed community. Therefor, in this instance, this is not only the correct, but the only solution. We have the ability to solve our own problems, this ability was gifted to us by the devs, more options for doing this is the only acceptable option. That being said, it does need some control or mitigation, a duration limited by the severity of the crime. My suggestion durations are:Wirt wrote:Imprisonment is generally a bad idea. Not only does it take away control from a player (Bad), it's also controlled by other players (Double bad).
Trespassing: 24 real hours or 3 in game days.
Theft: 72 (3 days) RL hours or 6 in game days.
Vandalism: 168 RL hours (7 days) or 21 days in game.
Battery: 336 RL hours (14 days) or 42 days in game.
Murder: 772 RL hours (28 days) or 84 days in game.
Note: In the event of Battery/Murder, the charges are pardoned if imprisonment is chosen as the method of punishment rather than execution. One cannot imprison the character first, and then kill them at the end of the imprisonment. (Well, one can, but they will incur a scent of murder by doing so). To those who may complain about the durations listed, in the event of the murder of High LP characters, you could be costing them this much time OR MORE, so the punishment is equitable, and as mentioned above, saves you from execution.
On the login after the punishment duration is over, the criminal may choose to teleport back to the last location of their hearth fire (Even if it's been destroyed since, the only time this can happen), or to the charterstone of the town where they were punished.
3 - On imprisonment
The Stocks: Stocks can be built only on village property, and only someone currently in custody can be assigned to the stocks. Stocks can be made from wood, rope, and glue. Players may attempt to escape from the stocks once per IC day, which involves a (Strength & Dexterity) related test against some value determined by the quality of the stocks. Failure means they remain and cannot attempt again for another 8 RL hours, success means the stocks are broken (To damaged to be used without repair) and a 'Scent of Escape' is left. Stocks can only hold one criminal at a time. Obviously, no form of fast transport can be used while in this state.
The Gaol: A wooden structure that can be used to hold up to 4 people. All functions for escaping and assisting escape apply, with one exception. A successful escape attempt merely damages the structure, it does not render it 'unusable without repair'. In the event that the damage renders it 'unusable without repair' all prisoners are immediately successful if they attempt escape again. Escape attempts from this structure are harder than those from the Stocks, and less likely to be successful.
The Prison: As above, but can hold 8 people, and is built with bricks and metal. Prisons are nearly impossible to escape without assistance, and even with assistance it's quite difficult.
4- Errata:
Assisting Escape:
Someone can attempt to assist with escape in two ways. The character may select 'Assist Escape' to attempt to help the individual escape, essentially giving the villain a free escape attempt in an 8 hour period. Successful or not this will leave a scent called "Traitorous Scent of the Accomplice", see below for more information on this. An assisted escape takes the relevant stats and skills from both characters into account when determining the chance of escape. A character may also attempt to destroy the imprisoning device, this will leave both "Traitorous Scent of the Accomplice" and "Scent of Vandalism" behind.
Scent of Escape: Left when a player successfully evades imprisonment (with or without help). The Scent is labelled "Scent of Escape (Severity)" where severity can equal, in this order: Theft, Vandalism, Battery, Murder. The severity is determined by "Severity of the Crime the Player was Imprisoned for +1 level of severity", so someone on the stocks for trespassing who escapes, will leave behind a "Scent of Escape (Theft)", which can be used to create a 'Wanted Poster' for that severity.
Traitorous Scent of the Accomplice: Left when a player assists an imprisoned player in escaping from their imprisoning device, successful or no. A stronger scent is left if this is successful (By leaving more scents). Like any other crime, this can be used to create a wanted poster. A Traitorous Scent of the Accomplice has a severity rating equal to the crime the player committed to be imprisoned +1, as per Scent of Escape.
5 - In closing, this post was the matter of a few minutes cogitation followed by further thought as it was typed out. It is likely to possess holes. I for one strongly support the idea of real punishments for the crime, ones that affect the player more than a mere LP loss. This is no WoW, this is no EQII, or any other MMO where death by another player is a mere inconvenience.
I wanted to address these two comments more specifically:
Not only does it take away control from a player (Bad): This is not bad, aside from the act of playing the game, the character you assaulted generally had little control over the crime committed against them. This is especially true in a game where it's even POSSIBLE for a single entity to destroy a palisade, or a building, in a few hits without any other assistance than a weapon and a battering ram. The only policing technique that matters is taking away the ability of the other player to play the offending character.
It's also controlled by other players (Double bad): In this game, 'controlled by the players' is rather a mantra. When you batter or kill someone, you leave a scent that allows they or others to summon you to your hearthfire whether you're logged in or not. This is in the control of the other player, this is precedent for this kind of justice system.
- BWithey
- Posts: 274
- Joined: Sun Aug 01, 2010 3:16 pm
Re: Crime and Punishment
by Repercussionist » Tue Sep 28, 2010 7:27 pm
GalacticCow wrote:There's something wrong with what dra6o0n said:Well you typically can hold a criminal in a jail area by making Palisade and keys.
I've heard of this method. It's completely useless, since they can simply teleport back to hearth fire.
Not if you trap them inside where their HF is.
They might be really irritated if they can't get out to get wood for repairs or other supplies. Of course if they used a charter stone or village, they could still get out if they have enough TW, but it would inconvenience and limit them.Zen always wins.
~K~
~K~
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Repercussionist - Posts: 262
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Re: Crime and Punishment
by DDDsDD999 » Tue Sep 28, 2010 10:14 pm
BWithey wrote:This permits the character to attack and murder the offending player, even without possessing the Murder skill...If someone is killed under a warrant of execution, a further 20% LP penalty is incurred upon reincarnation. (So someone with full Trad would only get 55% back rather than 75%) Someone killing a criminal while holding a warrant of execution leaves neither battery nor murder scents when doing so.
No.
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DDDsDD999 - Posts: 5669
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Re: Crime and Punishment
by Repercussionist » Tue Sep 28, 2010 11:18 pm
DeadlyPencil wrote:thats pretty dead simple to me, and has no negatives to it.
Oh, you mean except for the fact that you have to knock them out, which would be impossible if they were way stronger than you, and the fact that it could easily be abused by griefers who wish to mess with unsuspecting hermits who have no village to rescue them...
Well in that case, you're right, there are no negatives.
Zen always wins.
~K~
~K~
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Repercussionist - Posts: 262
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Re: Crime and Punishment
by BWithey » Wed Sep 29, 2010 10:51 pm
DDDsDD999 wrote:No.
Your feedback is worthless sir, can you provide reasons? Rebuttals?
But let me anticipate:
"The act being committed by the person carrying a warrant is not a crime, it is justice. Since it is not a crime, scents of crime do not linger. If a person in the pursuit of dispensing justice is killed, his penalty should not equal the same amount as that of a criminal who died as a result of committing this crime. The 20% penalty is to add a punishment more severe than the mere 25% lost under other circumstances. A crime where the only punishment is death, and the penalty from that death is the same as if they were acting in a just cause, has no punishment at all. Merely an inconvenient consequence."
- BWithey
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Re: Crime and Punishment
by BWithey » Wed Sep 29, 2010 11:15 pm
To expand upon this link.
Prison and Work Yards
One idea that occurred to me in conjunction with the prison concept above, was the idea of giving your criminals the option of working off their imprisonment. The way this would work is that a 'prison yard' would be put in place in the same way as any other claim. It would cost authority to place and expand (and likely maintain), and would be overseen by the law-speaker or chieftain.
Each individual prisoner could be assigned an 'LP Bail', being the amount of work in LP they have to perform before they are permitted to leave the prison yard. At no point could this bail require them to stay longer than the maximum time period for a crime, but if they burn it off early, it could lead to an early release.
Work yards work much like claims, except in reverse.. Those without permission cannot LEAVE the work-yard (even criminal acts will not allow them to do so, but it will allow them to do an escape attempt as explained in the previous post, failure leaves them confined to the work yard.).
Work yards need not contain the prison building, but they must be placed within the villages claim. A prisoner who logs off in the work yard will be returned to the prison building (whether stock, gaol, or prison), or they may choose to return there by attempting to leave the work yard and selecting the 'return to confinement' option that shows up. Multiple work-yards can exist in a village, and the prisoner will have a choice of which one to go to to perform their work.
Work-yards function like personal claims in that they occupy a chunk of authority which is returned when they are torn down, permitting the law-speaker/chieftain to move the work-yard around as needed. If a work-yard is torn down with a prisoner in it, that prisoner is immediately returned to the prison building.
LP earned from activities in work-yards only go to paying off the LP debt, not towards the characters LP pool.
The amount of LP that can be charged for a given crime will be crime specific. I will leave it to the devs to determine those amounts.
Prison and Work Yards
One idea that occurred to me in conjunction with the prison concept above, was the idea of giving your criminals the option of working off their imprisonment. The way this would work is that a 'prison yard' would be put in place in the same way as any other claim. It would cost authority to place and expand (and likely maintain), and would be overseen by the law-speaker or chieftain.
Each individual prisoner could be assigned an 'LP Bail', being the amount of work in LP they have to perform before they are permitted to leave the prison yard. At no point could this bail require them to stay longer than the maximum time period for a crime, but if they burn it off early, it could lead to an early release.
Work yards work much like claims, except in reverse.. Those without permission cannot LEAVE the work-yard (even criminal acts will not allow them to do so, but it will allow them to do an escape attempt as explained in the previous post, failure leaves them confined to the work yard.).
Work yards need not contain the prison building, but they must be placed within the villages claim. A prisoner who logs off in the work yard will be returned to the prison building (whether stock, gaol, or prison), or they may choose to return there by attempting to leave the work yard and selecting the 'return to confinement' option that shows up. Multiple work-yards can exist in a village, and the prisoner will have a choice of which one to go to to perform their work.
Work-yards function like personal claims in that they occupy a chunk of authority which is returned when they are torn down, permitting the law-speaker/chieftain to move the work-yard around as needed. If a work-yard is torn down with a prisoner in it, that prisoner is immediately returned to the prison building.
LP earned from activities in work-yards only go to paying off the LP debt, not towards the characters LP pool.
The amount of LP that can be charged for a given crime will be crime specific. I will leave it to the devs to determine those amounts.
- BWithey
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Re: Crime and Punishment
by DeadlyPencil » Thu Sep 30, 2010 1:13 am
Repercussionist wrote:DeadlyPencil wrote:thats pretty dead simple to me, and has no negatives to it.
Oh, you mean except for the fact that you have to knock them out, which would be impossible if they were way stronger than you, and the fact that it could easily be abused by griefers who wish to mess with unsuspecting hermits who have no village to rescue them...
Well in that case, you're right, there are no negatives.
You have to knock them out, which would be impossible if they were way stronger than you - no, your an idiot, go learn about summoning
The fact that it could easily be abused by griefers - so you would rather me kill you instead of wrapping you up and having the choice of killing yourself? your retarded.
- DeadlyPencil
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Re: Crime and Punishment
by Repercussionist » Thu Sep 30, 2010 2:34 am
DeadlyPencil wrote:Repercussionist wrote:DeadlyPencil wrote:thats pretty dead simple to me, and has no negatives to it.
Oh, you mean except for the fact that you have to knock them out, which would be impossible if they were way stronger than you, and the fact that it could easily be abused by griefers who wish to mess with unsuspecting hermits who have no village to rescue them...
Well in that case, you're right, there are no negatives.
You have to knock them out, which would be impossible if they were way stronger than you - no, your an idiot, go learn about summoning
The fact that it could easily be abused by griefers - so you would rather me kill you instead of wrapping you up and having the choice of killing yourself? your retarded.
Blueberries are food for mentally incompetent Neanderthals! See, I can also proclaim my opinions as fact!
For summoning, they have to leave scents, and not everything you'd want to lock someone up for leaves scents, so no, you're a beautiful person.
And also, I'm going to die anyway aren't I? You kind and generous individual.
I'm glad there are so many intelligent, caring people as yourself who can express themselves logically and by using proper spelling and grammar. What would this world be without you guys?
Zen always wins.
~K~
~K~
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Repercussionist - Posts: 262
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Re: Crime and Punishment
by niltrias » Thu Sep 30, 2010 10:04 am
DeadlyPencil wrote:why the hell do all the idiots always assume that imprisonment also means slaves, no ability to kill yourself, and a bunch of other shit they just make up even thought it wasn't even suggested.
kidnapping can be dead simple, and probably could be coded and implemented in a week in my opinion. you knock a guy out, right click a rope on him. he is essentially dead. you can now move him around like a animal carcass, and the body has a right click option to kill or untie. The account owner gets put back to his log in screen as if he died but now he has an option of killing himself. Other than killing himself he can try and get his village to get him released. If he is untied, it will be as if he was summoned, and he will log out if not engaged in combat. The account owner can then log in at his hearth or village like normal. if the captors dont release him and kill him, its just a normal kill.
thats pretty dead simple to me, and has no negatives to it.
Exactly. As long as they have a suicide option, this would just open up all sorts of interesting gameplay. If you captured them, you could have killed them anyway...so why not add more options?
<Marcher Lord>
Dogs! Oh god, please give us DOGS!
There are those who press on with the ardor of beer, and those who are faint with thirst.
Dogs! Oh god, please give us DOGS!
There are those who press on with the ardor of beer, and those who are faint with thirst.
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