A serious attempt to analyse W5LP

[Mitudev]

I am currently waiting to get yeomanry. I'm not even going to bother building anything until I have it up. I really don't see the point. I'll just wait with my lean-to until I have a claim in 12 hours then jump on in and build the storage I need with some short-term curis before piling on some long-wait curis and chilling for another day.
In the old game I had a large farm because I wanted more lp. I will still have a farm, but it will not be as large. I will still do the same silk stuff, but this actually works for me.
Less time spent in the game grinding = Less of a time restraint H&H is. I really have no issue with this.

[kaizokuroof]

I am currently waiting to get yeomanry. I'm not even going to bother building anything until I have it up. I really don't see the point. I'll just wait with my lean-to until I have a claim in 12 hours then jump on in and build the storage I need with some short-term curis before piling on some long-wait curis and chilling for another day.
In the old game I had a large farm because I wanted more lp. I will still have a farm, but it will not be as large. I will still do the same silk stuff, but this actually works for me.
Less time spent in the game grinding = Less of a time restraint H&H is. I really have no issue with this.

Haven did chew into your time, but it didn't have too...

I pretty much agree with everything OP has said, well thought out. I will give this new system a go, but as I keep playing, I find myself with less things to do and more time waiting.

Long story short J&L have killed my H&H experience QQ.

- KR

[Jackard]

What I'd like to see there would be some kind of "Village Study", for example an extra inventory by right clicking the Village Claim, the Attention limit could be an accumulated amount of INT or the average INT of every villager in town.

If accumulated there could be certain High Tier Curiosities a single Player would most likely never be able to equip

So if you gain curiosities for example by using the village resources, or just want to share - you can put the curiosity into the Village Study.
The gained LP will be evenly divided for every villager thus having many clone-war? alts in the village would actually slow down the overall progress.

yea i suggested the same thing back in january. hope it goes in

id just like to see something like Study brought back, curiosities allowed you to travel/explore without feeling like you were wasting your time

it would also be nice if (as suggested near the end of the study thread) if curiosities and discoveries, buffed accordingly, were the only things that awarded LP - the intent being to remove the attractiveness of performing repetitive, tedious, and senseless actions like clearcutting or overhunting or overfarming purely for the sake of earning LP

you could even add a thing where the village idol could study a few curiosities and award all village members with LP

[Potjeh]

W5LP is not interactive
...

The problem lies in, simply put, the Curiosity system itself. If you want to gain LP, you need to make a Curiosity; that's fine. You then equip the curiosity, and then...wait. That's it. There's no way to interact with it, there's no way to manipulate it, and there's no way around it. You have to sit and wait for your LP gains.

No, you equip curiosity and go work on getting the next one. Every curiosity worth a damn is fairly rare, so if you just log out and wait you'll always be using the crappy ones. Seriously, how can people be surprised that primitive doll and cone cow give crap LP, when they're trivially easy to make?

W5LP is purely time-based
If a newbie joins months after more experienced players, what can he do? The only way to progress is to wait, and by the time you get to where the vets are by waiting, those same vets have progress further along. It seems to go against the very concept of a MMO in that player competition is nigh-impossible to alter through any means other than "hoping the other guy doesn't check in on his curis for a week".

This is not a problem with the curiosities, it's a problem with uncapped skill growth, and it's always been present.

W5LP is not a social game

This is partly a problem with W5LP and partly a problem with W5LP's discovery system.

When a new player joins a village with experience players, it makes sense for him to receive a few freebies/passdowns. Let's say this newbie gets a bonesaw from a vet. He goes out, does some chopping, and then gives the saw back. Later, when he's experienced, he decides to make a bonesaw for himself. He takes some bone from the storage, gathers branches, and...nothing. Because this newbie never "learned" how to remove a bone from a rabbit or something, he is unable to make a bonesaw, despite having the recipe memorized and having used a bloody bonesaw before. This alone more or less nullifies the concept of players helping each other by passing down high-tier items.

How? Why does everyone have to know how to craft bonesaws? You can use ones handed to you by your survival specialist just fine, it'll be higher q anyway. If anything, this makes the game more social, as you have to rely more on your group members rather than just craft everything yourself.

As if that wasn't problematic enough, the Curiosity system defies the concept of villages and clans. Let's say you make a really badass high-tier curi, and you're proud of it. You want to use it, correct? So you use it, and now nobody else in the village can have any rewards, any gains at all from the materials you sunk into the curi. In classic H&H, if you grinded up LP by making sausages, those sausages would go on to benefit the entire village. Now, the only way to gain LP is a method that drains the resource pool of a village and only benefits a single member, meaning there's no point in expecting a bonus from a village other than socialization and backup.

Uhm, no. You make multiple copies of the same curiosity, and then you distribute them to group members. In my group I'm going pure exploration, so I supply the other guys with foragable curiosities. We have a guy who's going carpentry, and he's making wood boats and stuff, the sewing guy makes leather balls etc. Again, the system makes the game a lot more social. If people in your group aren't specializing and coordinating like this, well, you need a better group.

W5LP's raw numbers were unaltered/poorly thought out

This is probably true, but it's too early to say what needs buff and what needs nerf. At the very least we need to compile a list of curiosities with their lp/(concentration*time) rates.

W5LP is a system where the more you gain, the more you gain

And no, that wasn't a typo. Higher quality Curiosities give better LP. More LP is needed to make better curis. Better curis get more LP. More LP is needed to make better curis. It's a circular cycle, and it benefits the experienced vet while going against the tender newbie, which is usually the opposite of what games go for.

This is how FEPs work too. The whole point is that optimizing your build takes player skill, and I think that better players are supposed to float to the top.

[Halagaz]

I just fly through your post so maybe i miss something, but just a comment.
The system is not strictly time based, you still can get more more attention point, you need to craft those curiosity and can raise their quality to get more lp; so you still actively can raise and manage your lp output, i think its very good, its not like Eve for exemple where you set the skills you'd like to have and wait for weeks and weeks to get them; it a good compromise especially because quality raise boost the system by a lot, without quality raise i don't know if it would be that good in fact because you wouldn't act that much on it, crafting curiosity would be just a shallow grind on timer.
Personally i'm very satisfied especially because destroying the environement to get more lp just didn't fit the game ambiance at all to me. So that single reason worth the system, but i still seam interesting beyound that fix, so.

And i don't know why you say W5 isn't social, i think its the oposit before quality wasn't really important but to not waste rare resource like metals, for the rest really quality didn't matter much, now you need it to get more lp; it's way more important.

[ImpalerWrG]

The one thing I might change to adress the desire for "Imediate Gratification" would be to make the LP come in little ticks rather then all at once. Ticks would be syncronized with all your curiosities and occour say every 10 minutes (bit like baking items in an oven). You get a dolup of LP each tick and your Study page displays what the dolup size is, some kind of Ding/Flash tells you when a curiosity is done so you can equip more.

While it would still be basicly the same over all outcome the player would feel a more imediate sense of improvement as soon as they equip the curiosity as they see their LP rate incresse right on the screen and then shortly there after recive some of that LP.

Mechanicly something needs to prevent any kind of equip-unequip exploint, something as simple as not allowing unequipping could work but is a bit harsh. Saving the progress on the curio would work too, or using a Symbel item style of quality depletion though that raises more questions of how the LP rate would be calculated and if it would need to change as the item drops in quality. It can certainly be resolved some how.

Also I still like the idea of specialized Curios that could inject point directly towards a particular skill. Two kinds could exist, Curios that grant you one of the one time purchase skills when its completed, afterwhich the player can never equip that Curio again. I think most basic items could easily serve double duty here, a stone gives Stoneworking, a Branch Lumberjack etc etc. Most of these skills have costs that are equivilent to low level curios anyways. Second a set of Curios that add LP to the Skill levels, effectivly cheapening and eventually buying a level in each. I think the random occouring type would be the best fit for these as it would encourage us to trade them to the apropriate specialist.

[Stelation]

I 100% agree. That's all I have to say.

[hikahi]

The one thing I might change to adress the desire for "Imediate Gratification" would be to make the LP come in little ticks rather then all at once. Ticks would be syncronized with all your curiosities and occour say every 10 minutes (bit like baking items in an oven). You get a dolup of LP each tick and your Study page displays what the dolup size is, some kind of Ding/Flash tells you when a curiosity is done so you can equip more.

... Snip ...

I really love this idea. I like the new lp system a lot, but think this change would really improve it quite a bit

[sabinati]

W5LP is not a social game
As if that wasn't problematic enough, the Curiosity system defies the concept of villages and clans. Let's say you make a really badass high-tier curi, and you're proud of it. You want to use it, correct? So you use it, and now nobody else in the village can have any rewards, any gains at all from the materials you sunk into the curi. In classic H&H, if you grinded up LP by making sausages, those sausages would go on to benefit the entire village. Now, the only way to gain LP is a method that drains the resource pool of a village and only benefits a single member, meaning there's no point in expecting a bonus from a village other than socialization and backup.

In essence, the very concept of players helping players goes against a lot of the fundamentals of the new systems.

What I'd like to see there would be some kind of "Village Study", for example an extra inventory by right clicking the Village Claim, the Attention limit could be an accumulated amount of INT or the average INT of every villager in town.

If accumulated there could be certain High Tier Curiosities a single Player would most likely never be able to equip

So if you gain curiosities for example by using the village ressources, or just want to share - you can put the curiosity into the Village Study.
The gained LP will be evenly divided for every villager thus having many clone-war? alts in the village would actually slow down the overall progress.

cool idea.

[sabinati]

The one thing I might change to adress the desire for "Imediate Gratification" would be to make the LP come in little ticks rather then all at once. Ticks would be syncronized with all your curiosities and occour say every 10 minutes (bit like baking items in an oven). You get a dolup of LP each tick and your Study page displays what the dolup size is, some kind of Ding/Flash tells you when a curiosity is done so you can equip more.

While it would still be basicly the same over all outcome the player would feel a more imediate sense of improvement as soon as they equip the curiosity as they see their LP rate incresse right on the screen and then shortly there after recive some of that LP.

Mechanicly something needs to prevent any kind of equip-unequip exploint, something as simple as not allowing unequipping could work but is a bit harsh. Saving the progress on the curio would work too, or using a Symbel item style of quality depletion though that raises more questions of how the LP rate would be calculated and if it would need to change as the item drops in quality. It can certainly be resolved some how.

Also I still like the idea of specialized Curios that could inject point directly towards a particular skill. Two kinds could exist, Curios that grant you one of the one time purchase skills when its completed, afterwhich the player can never equip that Curio again. I think most basic items could easily serve double duty here, a stone gives Stoneworking, a Branch Lumberjack etc etc. Most of these skills have costs that are equivilent to low level curios anyways. Second a set of Curios that add LP to the Skill levels, effectivly cheapening and eventually buying a level in each. I think the random occouring type would be the best fit for these as it would encourage us to trade them to the apropriate specialist.

actually on the test server they lost quality with each cycle and gave LP at the end of each cycle until it reached 0 q and disappeared. i don't know why they changed to this system, but i'm sure they had their reasons.