Peace SG capital

[Vaku]

Thanks for your support Vaku!

I would imagine this would be set up to be much more democratic? Looks like a world trade center would be needed to properly monitor were the prices for things are going.A Capitalist market off the top of my head would be the best way to go about this.Taxation would be based upon how much profit you make and only a percentage of that.the government could purchase what it needs from people rather then owning them.This way there will be in a sense a treasury,funds can be shifted for were there needed in weather it be aid,loans,soldiers.The Decisions should be made by the people who reside in the capital and not a Oligarchy.

This is the current HnH World Trade Center located at the SW corner of the Peaceful Grid, right here.

Yes, and that is the purpose of taxes, to aid the community as a whole. Taxes used any other way always leads towards revolt or to a lesser end: extreme distrust in the government.

[Dallane]

Thanks for your support Vaku!

I would imagine this would be set up to be much more democratic? Looks like a world trade center would be needed to properly monitor were the prices for things are going.A Capitalist market off the top of my head would be the best way to go about this.Taxation would be based upon how much profit you make and only a percentage of that.the government could purchase what it needs from people rather then owning them.This way there will be in a sense a treasury,funds can be shifted for were there needed in weather it be aid,loans,soldiers.The Decisions should be made by the people who reside in the capital and not a Oligarchy.

This is the current HnH World Trade Center located at the SW corner of the Peaceful Grid, right here.

Yes, and that is the purpose of taxes, to aid the community as a whole. Taxes used any other way always leads towards revolt or to a lesser end: extreme distrust in the government.

I dunno where you guys think dis or ainran and their allies are going to let you tax their own land and items that they are letting you live on with this "capital"

[Vaku]

Don't be daft, we are providing and musing on ideas. Clearly the place is not even constructed yet. Moreover no one said they themselves were going to tax, we always referred to the governing body, and they are by default Ainran and Dis.

Please, clarify whatever you intended this to mean,

that they are letting you live on with this "capital"

because that makes too little sense for me to respond.

[thesatan]

I don't see a point creating a special economy. It would be to difucult and would hardly work. What dis what of this project is to gain wealth. Hnh wealth is measured in rare items. while gold be the most rare it is worth low value because you can only craft few items, you can't use it as curios. perls, bluebells, flotsams are perfect. they are rare, they are valuable because they are perfect curios. They also became the standert hnh world currency, there isin't a trade topic which wouldn;t accept these 3 as primary payment method. the point system is also exelent because there is no tyrany of someone controling the market . Everyone can think of their own point system they want to sell things. this is fair.
The Dis want his town only for wealth. They will gain their wealth by selling or renting. They should not charge any taxes because they don't produce any services exept defence. But because we already pay them buy/rent payment, defence is included in that price. not additional tax



in summary - We pay for a piece of land which will be protected for forever by DIS or it's allies. The piece of land can be bought or rented. Additional features should be bought seperatly by the DIS or other players who sell building services. After you bought the land. You own it. You are free to sell it or rent it. DIS cannot confiscate piece of land. Free trade.

[Tj2u1]

Im not all that experienced with large villages or even the capital for that matter just throwing ideas out if there not in place yet.

People as individuals can trade how they please but really the use of a currency is for an industrial scale purpose i suppose you could think of it like a company.
group of people work together to produce a product they sell it to a market/store from there it is distributed to the people.

really the whole idea right now is experimental we need to test it to see how well it works.

[Vaku]

I don't see a point creating a special economy. It would be to difucult and would hardly work. What dis what of this project is to gain wealth. Hnh wealth is measured in rare items. while gold be the most rare it is worth low value because you can only craft few items, you can't use it as curios. perls, bluebells, flotsams are perfect. they are rare, they are valuable because they are perfect curios. They also became the standert hnh world currency, there isin't a trade topic which wouldn;t accept these 3 as primary payment method. the point system is also exelent because there is no tyrany of someone controling the market . Everyone can think of their own point system they want to sell things. this is fair.
The Dis want his town only for wealth. They will gain their wealth by selling or renting. They should not charge any taxes because they don't produce any services exept defence. But because we already pay them buy/rent payment, defence is included in that price. not additional tax



in summary - We pay for a piece of land which will be protected for forever by DIS or it's allies. The piece of land can be bought or rented. Additional features should be bought seperatly by the DIS or other players who sell building services. After you bought the land. You own it. You are free to sell it or rent it. DIS cannot confiscate piece of land. Free trade.

You refer to coinage and Tj's system as a special economy, it's not a special economy, it's simply the proposed currency of the economy and how to monitor value, respectively. Devising and enforcing a plan is not in of itself difficult. The difficulty you may be referring to is the difficulty that comes out of breaking a habit in an artificial manner whereas if curios suddenly ceased to exist, there would be immediate demand for a new standard in trade. When you say this would hardly work, I laugh and say open your wallet. Hopefully you have money. Imagine, that has replaced the barter system. It's why you don't need to trade your shoelace and sister so you can eat for a week. Moreover it's how you get paid for all official positions. By being freed from the barter system, players can venture away from the career of curio hunter, to actually do a job they enjoy and subsist on the money they earn while having fun.

When you say "What Dis hopes to gain out of this is wealth" I say look no further than coinage. If they can enforce in their Peace Grid, a gold standard so very many options to acquire wealth will open up. There needn't be shortsightedness as in "feed us curios once and you get to live with security." No, one payment wouldn't do them any good, if they're to actually maintain the land they own. In maintaining their land, they're going to need to tax it, because they are still using their time after the purchase is made and done. Moreover, if they tax it, they can do so many brilliant things to empower their citizens.

One thing among those empowering possibilities is a bank. No, not as previously suggest to guard any items, but a bank that uses coin currency. With such currency players can actually acquire interest for having put money in their own bank account. Another thing they could do is offer loans to start up player businesses. This would only be slightly possible with curio currency as you cannot really calculate interest in curios because they don't have standard fractions. The shear amount of curios makes it difficult to place a value on each and every one to actually use that as a currency, that's exactly why people have narrowed their curio currency to 3 items: The pearl, Chiming Bluebell and Flotsam and moreover narrowed those values to 50, 40, 20.

So imagine gaining interest on your account in a curio bank. What do you gain it in? 20 Q 10 Itsy-bitsy Spiders before you can convert that to a dragon fly to then convert that to a bloated bolette to then an edelweiss till finally you have a flotsam but realize in transition from item to item you actually lost value because there is no standard. It's a nightmare trying to make an advanced soceity when you feel that if the currency were to change, your wealth in pearls and crap would vaporize. That's not the case. They still hold their value, the only thing that will change is that coins will be items that can mediate that value with greater precision. Hell, you may even decide to treat yourself and finally indulge in your curios.

And what's this about tyranny? Monopolies, which are the only tyranny I think you're referring to can arise in any market. People converting to a single standard is not some bacteria culture for tyranny. It actually helps to dissolve the existing routes for market control and gives rise to new jobs players can partake and enjoy.

Now back to Dis' aim for wealth and taxes. Examine your own government. More than likely their defense is their most costly expense. More than likely any taxes you pay are going in great portion for your security as a citizen of that nation, both defense and anything akin to social security, or other civic programs (And civic programs are likely to arise out of a capital. Just an FYI).

In summary, read the post. You cannot begin to glean the possibilities of revamping the standard without first understanding a few major points about governments and economy. You don't need to be the foremost expert on the topics, simply look at the world around you more critically and you will see the nuances in both these systems.

TL;DR
Works? Yes.
Wealth? Definite gain.
Advanced things to do? Check
Curio sytem? Huge faults
Tyranny? Lol.
Wealth & Taxes? Yes

Anyways, I feel that with the amount of resistance found in trying to change the system, I believe a dual currency will work as a measure to ease the rest of the community into a better functioning economy.

[thesatan]

I don't see a point creating a special economy. It would be to difucult and would hardly work. What dis what of this project is to gain wealth. Hnh wealth is measured in rare items. while gold be the most rare it is worth low value because you can only craft few items, you can't use it as curios. perls, bluebells, flotsams are perfect. they are rare, they are valuable because they are perfect curios. They also became the standert hnh world currency, there isin't a trade topic which wouldn;t accept these 3 as primary payment method. the point system is also exelent because there is no tyrany of someone controling the market . Everyone can think of their own point system they want to sell things. this is fair.
The Dis want his town only for wealth. They will gain their wealth by selling or renting. They should not charge any taxes because they don't produce any services exept defence. But because we already pay them buy/rent payment, defence is included in that price. not additional tax



in summary - We pay for a piece of land which will be protected for forever by DIS or it's allies. The piece of land can be bought or rented. Additional features should be bought seperatly by the DIS or other players who sell building services. After you bought the land. You own it. You are free to sell it or rent it. DIS cannot confiscate piece of land. Free trade.

You refer to coinage and Tj's system as a special economy, it's not a special economy, it's simply the proposed currency of the economy and how to monitor value, respectively. Devising and enforcing a plan is not in of itself difficult. The difficulty you may be referring to is the difficulty that comes out of breaking a habit in an artificial manner whereas if curios suddenly ceased to exist, there would be immediate demand for a new standard in trade. When you say this would hardly work, I laugh and say open your wallet. Hopefully you have money. Imagine, that has replaced the barter system. It's why you don't need to trade your shoelace and sister so you can eat for a week. Moreover it's how you get paid for all official positions. By being freed from the barter system, players can venture away from the career of curio hunter, to actually do a job they enjoy and subsist on the money they earn while having fun.

When you say "What Dis hopes to gain out of this is wealth" I say look no further than coinage. If they can enforce in their Peace Grid, a gold standard so very many options to acquire wealth will open up. There needn't be shortsightedness as in "feed us curios once and you get to live with security." No, one payment wouldn't do them any good, if they're to actually maintain the land they own. In maintaining their land, they're going to need to tax it, because they are still using their time after the purchase is made and done. Moreover, if they tax it, they can do so many brilliant things to empower their citizens.

One thing among those empowering possibilities is a bank. No, not as previously suggest to guard any items, but a bank that uses coin currency. With such currency players can actually acquire interest for having put money in their own bank account. Another thing they could do is offer loans to start up player businesses. This would only be slightly possible with curio currency as you cannot really calculate interest in curios because they don't have standard fractions. The shear amount of curios makes it difficult to place a value on each and every one to actually use that as a currency, that's exactly why people have narrowed their curio currency to 3 items: The pearl, Chiming Bluebell and Flotsam and moreover narrowed those values to 50, 40, 20.

So imagine gaining interest on your account in a curio bank. What do you gain it in? 20 Q 10 Itsy-bitsy Spiders before you can convert that to a dragon fly to then convert that to a bloated bolette to then an edelweiss till finally you have a flotsam but realize in transition from item to item you actually lost value because there is no standard. It's a nightmare trying to make an advanced soceity when you feel that if the currency were to change, your wealth in pearls and crap would vaporize. That's not the case. They still hold their value, the only thing that will change is that coins will be items that can mediate that value with greater precision. Hell, you may even decide to treat yourself and finally indulge in your curios.

And what's this about tyranny? Monopolies, which are the only tyranny I think you're referring to can arise in any market. People converting to a single standard is not some bacteria culture for tyranny. It actually helps to dissolve the existing routes for market control and gives rise to new jobs players can partake and enjoy.

Now back to Dis' aim for wealth and taxes. Examine your own government. More than likely their defense is their most costly expense. More than likely any taxes you pay are going in great portion for your security as a citizen of that nation, both defense and anything akin to social security, or other civic programs (And civic programs are likely to arise out of a capital. Just an FYI).

In summary, read the post. You cannot begin to glean the possibilities of revamping the standard without first understanding a few major points about governments and economy. You don't need to be the foremost expert on the topics, simply look at the world around you more critically and you will see the nuances in both these systems.

TL;DR
Works? Yes.
Wealth? Definite gain.
Advanced things to do? Check
Curio sytem? Huge faults
Tyranny? Lol.
Wealth & Taxes? Yes

Anyways, I feel that with the amount of resistance found in trying to change the system, I believe a dual currency will work as a measure to ease the rest of the community into a better functioning economy.

I was not saying that we need standart currency in curious. i was just saying that curios formed naturally because they are valued more as an actual useful item. I am saying that we don't need a currency at all. point system is perfect. Anyone could set his own price. I would suggest that the land sellers use curios because they are the most common and actually useful thing not like gold. One of the basic thing you do is LP-up your char, Curios do that therefore they are more useful than gold.
The gold is also very unstable. Everyone can dig it . the moar people dig it - the less valuable it is. SO in the end the currency wouldn't be stable. the amount of coins would grow by day. what if someone does not log in 3 days? his assests will be worth so little because the rest of the town would have already shared the new influx of coins. How would you control it? Not controlling would create a huge gap between wealthy and poor. Bribes and curruption would be moar common than normal trades. The poor people couldn't simply keep up. How would they pay taxes? if they get kicked out, a richer dude would buy his land for himself. So in the end. To buy a simple item you would have to pay huge amount of coins. The capital would be divided between rich groups. Solo people would need to move out because they don't have a manufacturing power to keep up. So i say that trade sector should not be controlled.

[Vaku]

I was not saying that we need standart currency in curious. i was just saying that curios formed naturally because they are valued more as an actual useful item. I am saying that we don't need a currency at all. point system is perfect. Anyone could set his own price. I would suggest that the land sellers use curios because they are the most common and actually useful thing not like gold. One of the basic thing you do is LP-up your char, Curios do that therefore they are more useful than gold. The gold is also very unstable. Everyone can dig it . the moar people dig it - the less valuable it is. SO in the end the currency wouldn't be stable. the amount of coins would grow by day. what if someone does not log in 3 days? his assests will be worth so little because the rest of the town would have already shared the new influx of coins. How would you control it? Not controlling would create a huge gap between wealthy and poor. Bribes and curruption would be moar common than normal trades. The poor people couldn't simply keep up. How would they pay taxes? if they get kicked out, a richer dude would buy his land for himself. So in the end. To buy a simple item you would have to pay huge amount of coins. The capital would be divided between rich groups. Solo people would need to move out because they don't have a manufacturing power to keep up. So i say that trade sector should not be controlled.

Anyone can set a price. Anyone. You can set your price in seashells, you can set it in branches, pennies, wads of turds, you can set your price in tootsie rolls. Curios are not some unique and perfect item that allows price setting. People do the price setting and use items as the medium.

And duh, gold is less of a staple than curios, meaning everyone NEEDS curios. That's the same as real life in trading food, but guess what, most of the metropolitan portions of the world left that, because trading a crate of yams for a wagon does have the precision and wiggle room that coins carry. Bartering is in one word, prohibiting.

And look at what you just said.

The gold is also very unstable. Everyone can dig it . the moar people dig it - the less valuable it is. SO in the end the currency wouldn't be stable. the amount of coins would grow by day. what if someone does not log in 3 days? his assests will be worth so little because the rest of the town would have already shared the new influx of coins.

No. Simply no. Curios. EVERYONE gets curios. Curios are infinite. You go to the swamp one day. Chiming Bluebell. You go another day, Chiming Bluebell. You continue to go four months after the start of the world, and guess what? Still Chiming Bluebells. Gold, in fact, all the metals. They are finite. They are mutable. They are rare and therefore the perfect tool for trade. IF, and I say IF someone finds a gold mine, Good. That's a gold rush. That's what is supposed to happen. People strike it rich in various ways, but they can only do it that way in a limited manner, because gold embedded in the Earth? It runs out. CURIOS DO NOT.

Admittedly there will be initial and great fluctuations as people from the outside move around their assets from within and outside the peace grid. That's okay, that's what happens in times of transitions, but guess what it slows down and normalizes. And you ask:

How would you control it?

People put their price. You seem to provide all the answers, you're just making incorrect conclusions. People put their price on their items. Everything but the cost of gold, silver and perhaps bronze coins will have decided fractional values that the government provides, as in 100 bronze is equal to 1 silver and 100 silver is equal to 1 gold. From there everyone still keeps their assets and they have their same old net worth.

And please, again with this corruption business? The only reason you don't see it pronounced is because people don't live in close proximity to each other. But guess what, there are brick wall villages, there are palisade villages and then there are settlements with no walls. There are villages with livestock and villages with not an utter to their name. And there are villages with mines and villages without. The stratification already exists.

Coins won't make us into sniveling worm-like creatures that stab each other in the back. We do that fine already.

[thesatan]

Coins won't make us into sniveling worm-like creatures that stab each other in the back. We do that fine already.

We don't really do that fine murderers , financial crisis look all around us. We are actually worm-like creatures that stab each other in the back.

[Vaku]

We do that fine already.

I said what I said because I know that already. It (being the back-stabbing quality) is a constant that does not change with the currency. If we used pigs or paper money to do trade, we'd be just as ruthless with each other. And please, coins did not cause financial crisis. There's good link between the two.

And sorry for losing you in translation, but when I say, "We do that fine already." That doesn't mean we are doing fine. It means that the quality of "that" which refers to the backstabbing, is something that is done with minimal mistake. That is how the word "Fine" is being used here.