Jorbtar - THEIR ALIIIVVVEEE!!!!!

[Amanda44]

If these can be addressed, I think haven will be in a stable state.

(1:02:32 AM) loftar: You actually believe that just won't give rise to another, different situation, it too being ripe with 'sploits and unbalances?
(1:02:52 AM) loftar: I can't even take that notion seriously.

Dear Loftar,

I'm not understanding your logic here. I'm not meaning to be rude or ignorant but I fail to see how basicaly leaving Haven the way it is and only fixing the bugs and exploits is likely to give rise to further unbalanced situations. Whereas, altering the game, we all love btw, undoubtedly will. Could you possibly explain in more detail?

Also, could you give us a hint as to what you are looking at changing? I'm also worried. Whilst its true that change can be unsettling regardless, Haven is unique in its style of game play. If you alter it too much it will no longer be the game we all love so much and that will leave us without a game to play and you minus a stable core player base.

I'm not saying that no changes should be made, ever, I'm just extremely wary of which direction you plan on taking Haven. If you alter the game play taking inspiration from Salem, it will indeed 'ruin' the game.
I don't mean to disrespect your 'new baby', so to speak, but Salem is slow, boring and far more unbalanced than Haven! I truely wanted to like it and I have tried. I've played it on and off for over six months now, but, whilst it does have some good points, overall, it's not a patch on how immersive Haven is.

Haven is your true masterpiece - please be carefull with it.

Amanda - dedicated Haven fan.

[Sarge]

Vaults are probably only a very minor reason among a whole pile of reasons to not play HnH.

The most broken part of an outstanding game is the fuckers playing it. The biggest flaw in Haven & Hearth is that playing as a community of like minded neighborly folks (like a real clan and not a group of malfaisant malcontents who want to watch the world burn because they have tiny dicks and bad skin) requires about a million times more effort and general good luck than being a piece of shit.

Raiders and griefers are lazy. They don't need to do much to be successful whereas a thriving city or village must work together and be active, which lazy, dickless raider types make rather unenjoyable thus driving the useful members away because normal people with lives don't want to restart from scratch because of garbage mechanics with little to no accountability and almost zero chance at justice. If there are 500 people playing, there are 475 Jokers and maybe 3 Batmans. That doesn't work.

Until time sink and effort are equaled out so that play as an evil prick or a care bear farmer require the same dedication, this game won't be all that it can be. It will just be a place where you homos come to use bad grammar, misspell everything and build little fiefdoms of negligible meaning.

Oh and HEY BURG, how you been?

Well said man.

[Styx]

If these can be addressed, I think haven will be in a stable state.

(1:02:32 AM) loftar: You actually believe that just won't give rise to another, different situation, it too being ripe with 'sploits and unbalances?
(1:02:52 AM) loftar: I can't even take that notion seriously.

Dear Loftar,

I'm not understanding your logic here. I'm not meaning to be rude or ignorant but I fail to see how basicaly leaving Haven the way it is and only fixing the bugs and exploits is likely to give rise to further unbalanced situations. Whereas, altering the game, we all love btw, undoubtedly will. Could you possibly explain in more detail?

Also, could you give us a hint as to what you are looking at changing? I'm also worried. Whilst its true that change can be unsettling regardless, Haven is unique in its style of game play. If you alter it too much it will no longer be the game we all love so much and that will leave us without a game to play and you minus a stable core player base.

I'm not saying that no changes should be made, ever, I'm just extremely wary of which direction you plan on taking Haven. If you alter the game play taking inspiration from Salem, it will indeed 'ruin' the game.
I don't mean to disrespect your 'new baby', so to speak, but Salem is slow, boring and far more unbalanced than Haven! I truely wanted to like it and I have tried. I've played it on and off for over six months now, but, whilst it does have some good points, overall, it's not a patch on how immersive Haven is.

Haven is your true masterpiece - please be carefull with it.

Amanda - dedicated Haven fan.

Pretty much all of the suggestions that jordancoles made just make it harder to break into a town. Maybe the goal is not to make it harder to break into a town? Maybe loftar would rather re-do the system and actually make town raiding feasible yet defense practical. "Bandaid-ing" just makes the situation even more off-balance, and all people preach about is "balance", right?

[talon00302]

Add bug fixes to illegal vaults, remove bugrams, readd handbashing with less soak value required, but more hitpoints overall so the handbash would take longer but be open to a wider array of people.
If something like this doesn't happen the worlds going to continue to be a bunch of scared carebears and combat should entirely be taken out.
This would also help keep quality/Stats from running rampant to the point of range weapons being entirely useless becaues the leather formula is unbalanced for a devoted community a long time into game.

P.S. Tracking 3 hours to find a vault that when you even place a ram it gets alt spammed and they hide on hf to scent expiration is pretty lame.

[Avu]

Avus instructions toward fixing HH!

1. Restrict teleportation to roads. Friendly gates can be bypassed by teleportation (friendly is claimed by a claim where you have teleportation permission). Road building isn't that hard or expensive, road destroying is expensive time consuming and can be reversed easily think of it as destroying tiles but the road base still take week+ to revert to natural terrain during which it's much cheaper to remake. Make mapgen span slightly bigger landmasses in certain areas rivers should still be connected to everything for easy boating (boating has always been one of the best part of hh). Roads can be blocked by building road blocks, very expensive road blocks. A road block is easy to clear would drop you out of teleportation at it's location (you get notified there is a road block before teleporting).

2. Make wall strength a function of civilization impact. Cows, sheep, pigs , q crops growing, q trees, q buildings (with bigger weight towards bigger quality), number of buildings, authority number. The bigger the civilization the stronger the walls. If you implement defensive towers and crap like that make their power the same. This is to protect actual lived in places and make vaults useless. Rams remain but are just there to be used as strength boosts.

3. Implement wall scaling without armor so thievery is still possible. Thieves stealth is rolled against some town/ claim value so that towers, guard dogs are not alerted. Assassination can happen this way. The more crimes one commits the harder is to maintain stealth. Personal claims are actually a lot harder to steal from than towns. Once detected the complete lack of armor would make you pretty much instantly dead to towers/dogs.

4. Make buildings sanely hard to destroy. A new system is implemented where you set buildings on fire and they burn for 24h during which they can be cheaply repaired. Claim owners and village leadership can mark buildings for condemnation making them destroyable as they are now so you are not blocked by griefers. Houses get locks that are a bitch to break open but easier than destroying a well civilized wall. Containers get locks they also become much harder to destroy while not having claim permission. No more 10 second destruction of 50 cupboards then move on to next mansion. Ovens, smelters are also set on fire to destroy even if it doesn't make sense neither does punching them into nonexistence. This is about balance.

5. Authority items and mineholes become wall strength. No more invulnerable walls.

6. Rams become a lot more expensive to build but do not require drying time. Their use is just to speed wall destruction a bit. Walls get huge number of hitpoints rather than soak.

7. Cap stats! Especially strenght. Either than or modify fep system to require very crazy foods after certain breakpoints. No more just stuffing your mouth with mbc forever and tada wallbasher. You can still eat mbc but unless you eat a few rare dishes every point it's a lot harder to raise. An even better way would be to make leveling a stat that is very far above the rest progressively more punishing. So it pseudo-enforces balanced diets. It also makes losing a wallbasher hurt unlike now.

8. No more troll and bear destruction of stuff it makes no sense destroying.

9. Reverse terraforming. No more paving over clay makes it go forever. More terraforming ditches, irrigation systems etc.

10. Resource buildings like clay pits, water pumps that act as a focus for an entire node. It would produce the quality of the node at the highest value and remove the node while it stands. Exploiting the resource can be done only in limited amount each day so even if someone breaks in to steal some they will not be able to vandalize the spot. The building itself needs to be set on fire to destroy. Having one of these buildings is easier to wall off to protect (even considering that such a node would have a really terrible wall due to the civilization factor).

11. Make resource nodes visually recognizable in the first place. At the same time make the actual q of a node invisible to a new alt until some sort of item or skill discovery makes it available so we don't get the incredible alt spam early game for nodes.

edit:

12. Some system for protecting animals from raids needs to be put in place. This one is harder to make realistic. But they are one of the most important and time consuming assets a town can posses. Maybe you kill them by critically wounding them and if they are not bandaged in 24h they die. Stupid but something.

13. Remove movement combat. The whole 0 defense while moving is retarded. Remove that and people will run because they want to escape like sane behaviour. Oh yeah and implement a cooldown on water drinking during combat.

[Potjeh]

I don't have the words to express how much I agree.

[painhertz]

Avu pretty much nailed it.


"But realistically back when Loftar was talking about "Haven 2.0" he said almost everything you just said. You may well be preaching to the quior.

[painhertz]

If these can be addressed, I think haven will be in a stable state.

(1:02:32 AM) loftar: You actually believe that just won't give rise to another, different situation, it too being ripe with 'sploits and unbalances?
(1:02:52 AM) loftar: I can't even take that notion seriously.

I myself and I'd bet the majority are perfectly happy with taking the chance that you will break the game "further" if you'll just take a stab at patching the shit Coles pointed out. Realistically it would take you what? 5 hours or so to patch those things and generate another world? And being as how you are rebuilding Haven from the floor up ANYWAY at some point in the future you lose nothing and we GAIN the ability to play a possibly less bug ridden game until such time as you guys build Haven 2.0. Also? We'll give u 50 BUX.

[shotgunn902]

Avus instructions toward fixing HH!

-snip-

yes. just yes.

[Oddity]

I will definitely be making use of some of Avu's suggestions when my H&H Server Emulator v0.000001 reaches a playable state.