The Edelreich

[Vaku]

I am sorry if you find my review to be harsh but it is a very poorly arranged system for a game such as this.

Some of the things you are citing are actually in the U.S. Constitution, save the name change, (i.e. Section. 10. Article I).

Also, regarding the Chieftain comment—you cited that from Section. 3. Article I, but in Section. 2. Article I, it states,

When vacancies happen in the representation of a village, the Chieftain thereof shall issue election to fill such vacancies.

Election by the village (It's not optional by the Chieftain. They are compelled by law with the word, "shall")

And in Section. 4. Article I

The Times, Places and Manner of holding Elections for the Lawspeaker shall be prescribed in each village by the Legislature thereof; but the Council of Lawspeakers may at any time by law make or alter such regulations, except as to the places of choosing Lawspeakers.

And in the U.S. Contitution, Section. 4. Article. I.

The Times, Places and Manner of holding Elections for Senators and Representatives, shall be prescribed in each State by the Legislature thereof; but the Congress may at any time by Law make or alter such Regulations, except as to the Places of chusing Senators.

You can see here that not much is changed, except that I either forgot to or purposefully left out "Hirdsmen/Representatives", and if it was purposeful, I can't recall why I made that move. xD

Oh how nice nice a fife to rule as you wish and as long as you pay your taxes and are good servants to the king do what you want.

Also, I removed any mention of clauses that require money collected by a tax. In fact, it is less expensive to run this constitution than that of the United States.

In the U.S. Constitution, Section. 6. Article. I.

The Senators and Representatives shall receive a Compensation for their Services, to be ascertained by Law, and paid out of the Treasury of the United States. They shall in all Cases, except Treason, Felony and Breach of the Peace, be privileged from Arrest during their Attendance at the Session of their respective Houses, and in going to and returning from the same; and for any Speech or Debate in either House, they shall not be questioned in any other Place.

And in, Section. 1. Article. II.

The President shall, at stated Times, receive for his Services, a Compensation, which shall neither be increased nor diminished during the Period for which he shall have been elected, and he shall not receive within that Period any other Emolument from the United States, or any of them.

A part I kept, though does not call for mandatory tax, because the action itself is not required is here, in Section. 2. Article II

The Sovereign shall have power to full up all vacancies that may happen during the recess of the Council of Lawspeakers, by granting commissions which shall expire at the end of their next session.

It is found in the same place as the U.S. Constitution. Lots of things in this document are identical. One of the nice things I did was make it grammatically correct regarding genders, often using the phrase "his or her" whereas in the U.S. Constitution you only ever see "He". No evil sex discrimination inherently here.

At any rate. I appreciate that you are challenging this document and the claims I have written. You can be sure that come World 8 or sooner I will have a fresh document that is built from scratch, and hopefully will have the support of ingame mechanics that, in the words of Yolan, "provide emergent complexity."

Thank you LadyV, I will be reviewing your post a few times more and consider changes towards my subsequent schemes.

[dagrimreefah]

One of the nice things I did was make it grammatically correct regarding genders, often using the phrase "his or her" whereas in the U.S. Constitution you only ever see "He". No evil sex discrimination inherently here.

I hope you're just being sarcastic. If not, it wasn't sex discrimination you loon. Its just your ignorance of the usage of language at the time. Its the same as referring to all humans, man and woman, as 'man'. The authors of the constitution probably thought everyone would be smart and mature enough to understand that, but apparently not. To see evil intent in simple symantics is just retarded.

[LadyV]

Vaku I am not debating you used portion of the U.S. Constitution but in your omissions and modifications it is no longer a republican system.

I shall address the two issues you replied to.

The Lawspeaker may hold his or her office for the length of their life, and upon death, relinquish their station to the Chieftain of their village.

You say there shall be elections administered by a chieftan but then you say this. So by default the chieftan selects their successor and then moves up. There is no democratic or republican system there.

Section. 8.
The congress shall have power to lay and collect taxes, duties, imposts and excises, to pay the debts and provide for the common defense and general welfare of the Edelreich; but all duties, imposts and excises shall be uniform throughout the Edelreich;

To borrow money on the credit of the Edelreich;

To regulate commerce with foreign nations, and among the several villages, and with the Hearthland Tribes;

To establish a uniform rule of naturalization, and uniform laws on the subject of bankruptcies throughout the Edelreich;

To coin money, regulate the value thereof, and of foreign coin, and fix the standard of weights and measure;

To provide for the punishment of counterfeiting the securities and current coin of the Edelreich;

You most certainly did not remove sections on money, taxation, and control of trade.


I'm not trying to be argumentitive but your modified system only creates chaos and bloodshed. This is not real life and the foundations of a nation need to be established by those involved rather than dictated. The U.S Constitution you are trying to replicate was an agreed consensus by all involved. You are skipping the process of involvement and thus laying it out and saying take it or leave it. One does not found a nation, which I assume to be your goal, by dictate unless you intend conquest.

My first suggestion is assemble those who may be interested set out topics of organization and hash them out. By all mean use established documents as examples but refine them to meet the members and game needs. When you have representation and consensus of all those involved then you begin to be more republican. Your establishing your government and system before you even have a membership. That's dictate!

Best of luck!

[Vaku]

...apparently...

clauses that require money collected by a tax.

Above is what I wrote, and section 8 describes optional activities that are within the powers of Congress. Inherently, there is no tax demanded.

foundations...need to be established by those involved

I have opened the door and the document is completely modifiable, i.e. Article V: Amendments

The U.S Constitution you are trying to replicate was an agreed consensus by all involved.

Correct, though it wasn't all that popular with much more of the population left outside the convention, something Dagrimreefah is welcome to investigate.

I consider all the comments regarding these topics, and still working on more projects (the history thread on the backburner and life outside of HnH).

[dagrimreefah]

Well, was it sarcasm or wasn't it?

Also, I have done enough "investigating" to know you are correct. It wasn't very popular outside of the convention. Hell, it wasn't even very popular WITHIN the convention. This was due mainly to people being skeptical about any sort of centralization, since it was usually indiciive of tyranny. After all, that was why most people emigrated from Europe to America/fought the Revolutionary War in the first place.

[Vaku]

Well, was it sarcasm or wasn't it?.

Yes, it was sarcastic. "Evil" was used as a hyperbole. Nevertheless, it's one thing to ask if something was said sarcastically and it's another to double down on your assumptions. I pointed the pronouns out to demonstrate a change that is not always apparent at first glance, similarly to how more obvious and potentially sinister changes are not given due attention, such as how Vice-President morphed into Lawkeeper and the powers that go with that. "Evil" was used hyperbolically to tease a little about how conclusions in these former posts are not being approached with clarity, such as the argument over Section. 10. Article. I.

In truth, I've received more good discussion than I anticipated, and the doors are still open to those who would care to join in on this experiment. One more mistake I made was a failure to appeal to new players, which are truly the best audience to create a new group with. Another thing is that I routinely put myself in an observational and mediator-like position over a leadership position. Unfortunately, if I want to see change, I have to find someone like-minded and motivated, or do it myself—the latter meaning lots of time actually logging in and playing HnH.

In the meantime, before I have a good chunk of free time, I'll be doing this, contributing creatively and critically to the game and the community.

[dagrimreefah]

In that case, please accept my apologies. I'll be more careful with my words.

[Filystyn]

Feudalism was best system.

[derpydude]

i_wanna_join_can_i_please

[shubla]

Good idea, but not gonna happen between Haven And Hearth players.