Suggestion - Karma

[venatorvenator]

and a good chunk of the community doesn't want it either

I disagree on that. They make more noise but I am sure they are not a singificant part of the community. We're not even accounting for the people who never use the forum. For one reason or another, however, development always seems more focused on combat than on other stuff.

[SarcasticSoul]

Even robbing someone right now will take off half their HHP permanently if you let them live. Robbery and any form of negotiation other than complete slaughter at first sight would be a nice bit of depth.

Even something as simple as this would make me happier. Right now, the state of the game feels like I'm being punished (or am doomed to someday be punished) for choosing not to spam alts, vault a bunch of fighters, etc. The whole reason I even brought this up is because I feel like this game needs a happy medium between being the guy murdering everyone or being one of the targets the previous guy thrives on.

The idea some players have that's just "Whatever, I've been playing this game since world x and I can just grind out 5 or 6 new marauders in a couple of days and go right back to murdering everyone" is toxic.

The idea some players have that's just "Well, if you're not spamming alts and cramming them full of food and curios for when you get murdered, you're not playing the game right" is toxic.

In my opinion, those things are just as detrimental to the game as removing permadeath would be. I'm just looking for something that makes the idea of spamming alts less appealing without ruining the heart of the game.

[burgingham]

You're going to find some harsh resistance to any idea that reduces the brutality and harshness of haven from the community at large primarily because the vociferous community that still plays the game after all this time tends to be both accustomed to brutality and/or enjoys it.

Well, I wouldn't put it that way. I played every world after world 2 without attacking anyone that did not provoke an attack. I want nothing more than to farm peacefully.

Nontheless I am strongly against anything where people think they can punish the "raiders way" in a manner like the opening post suggests. People tend to forget how complex interactions especially in terms of punishment are. They might have attacked my friends, they might use griefing tactics to harm spots I need for whatever purpose, they might drive a political campaign against me. In any case there can be enough reason for me to have a just cause to retaliate and attack them directly (at least from my own perspective).

A system like the proposed one leaves all of these non-direct interactions out of the equation and in the end can end up harming peaceful players more than the ones it was intended to hit. Imposing arbitrary rules of what is right and wrong in HnH through game design is something that is almost certainly doomed to fail. The players have to take such matters into their own hands.

[chrisrock]

more balance as in additional or exclusive options for players who choose not to buy black skills, such as special buildings, burrows, or some sort of defense to reflect their lifestyles

YES. THIS. PLEASE. I WANT TO LIVE LIKE A RAT.

[SarcasticSoul]

Nontheless I am strongly against anything where people think they can punish the "raiders way" in a manner like the opening post suggests.

It wasn't an attempt to punish the raiders, per se. It was more a way to give people a reason to live without murdering people.

[Tonkyhonk]

i would rather ask for a haunting ghost/guardian angel feature to intervene whatever i want to put my little nose into

anyways, some reputation does strike you here. i just hope people try more to write up nice stories on whatever misery they have experienced when they can or dont mind revealing what happened. (and hopefully ppl can make it interesting and potential enough without too much whining so that mods dont feel like helling or merging.)

[DaniAngione]

So thanks to this thread I did my research and found out about how death works in Hafen. I'm not sure why I didn't bother looking into it before, I just assumed it was like Legacy (just without the peaceful thing), but now that I did I feel I completely agree with something like a Karma system.

Yes, the in-game advantage of being a fighter/raider/looter is clear - you get tons of loot and things others need to bleed to build/get. So yes, it makes sense that there should be some sort of reward for living a 'peaceful' life. I don't think it should go down to the point of judging what is right and what is wrong - but I'm sure that if there are 'scents' in the game, this judgement has been made already.

Thing is, I try to be a friendly, non-aggressive player.
"Don't play Haven then" I play whatever the fuck I want. This is not the point. There's a lot more of 'uniqueness' to Haven than the permadeath/hardcore pvp aspect of it, and it is worthy playing.

I just think that, yeah, I don't want to lose ALL my time and effort because some random ki-- 'person' enjoys killing people that are clearly weaker than they are just to brag about it.

[sabinati]

Nontheless I am strongly against anything where people think they can punish the "raiders way" in a manner like the opening post suggests.

It wasn't an attempt to punish the raiders, per se. It was more a way to give people a reason to live without murdering people.

People that aren't going to murder people don't need a reason, just like people that are going to murder everyone they see don't need a reason. Look at burgingham's post again. The point is that no action in the game is inherently good or evil in and of itself and you can't codify something as complex as morality into a game.

[jorb]

No. We try to maintain a value subjective game as far as is reasonable.