Game Development: Prelude pt. II

[Zeler]

Why are you even replying to another Nek, jorb?

[jorb]

If only someone warned you about these problems 5 months in the past...

If only someone had enough insight and good intentions to voluntarily offer better solutions...

I do not know if you've read them or not, but most of the C&I, How do I?, and Inn of Brodgar threads from five months ago touch upon that subject. Like, every other thread is a "payment system sucks"-thread. Perhaps your warnings were particularly prescient, but you were not alone in issuing them. There were lots of people voicing their dissent at the time, but the problem was always "Ok, so what do we do instead?", and on that note we had feedback in a bunch of different directions. It is also worth mentioning that the message was quite mixed, because there were also quite a few people playing, paying, and seeming at least reasonably happy.

At the time we wanted to let everything sink in and die down before we started making random changes in a panic, and I'm fine with that decision, though happy that we are in a better place now. We shouldn't respond too much to anger.

At the time of the release we were entirely absorbed by the positive that we saw in getting back to the game, all the stuff we had gotten in over two years of development, &c. The payment system was not at the forefront of our minds, an afterthought, and our mental shorthand was most definitely "Well, the game is still free, so you don't have to pay if you don't like it". That was a miscalculation, and I hope we have learned from it, but I also do not dwell on it too much.

[Astarisk]

Jorb and Loftar does nothing but listen to the community, this is pretty clear when you take a look over the patch notes. For that they deserve much praise. It's fine to post your opinion on matters, but realistically speaking not everyone can be listened to, or all ideas implemented, as that would just be monstrous and insane. They are doing a fine job on taking community feedback, and doing their best to resolve some issues, I don't see the point to sit around and scream/flail around that your ideas are best and that they should have implemented them right then and there.

When I said I didn't feel there was enough incentive for subbing, I was just voicing my opinion, I still am subbing, and plan to continue so. If Jorb was happy with the numbers, and the fact that some people feel like they weren't pressured to sub, then that is all around beneficial to us all. If the numbers turned out not to be in a good spot, then they can freely fix it later on. It's better to start off small and improve the system, than go out guns blazing right away.

For the record, I personally don't like stat caps, but with the introduction of salt I'm glad they are in currently. (You see, not everyone agrees with what you believe.)

[Danno]

There were lots of people voicing their dissent at the time, but the problem was always "Ok, so what do we do instead?"

Indeed, many complained, but few offered viable solutions. There were dozens of pages of useless posts without anyone putting any real thought into the issues.

It is also worth mentioning that the message was quite mixed, because there were also quite a few people playing, paying, and seeming at least reasonably happy.

As expected, there were a handful of people saying they'd gladly pay $6/mo for the game they've loved sinking their time into all these years. This was highly controversial and misunderstood at the time, though. This is why I suggested you have a poll to collect opinions in a more organized and efficient manner.

I'm glad you've taken some of the "general feedback" (RIP Haven, people calling you a Jew, random people saying the game is too expensive, etc.) from that time into consideration. I hope in the future you will consider surveys/polls. You could even have it in-game and offer a small reward to those who complete it (like some special item, some metal bars, LP, etc.). Having player opinions easily accessible and digestible would take a lot of guesswork out of the equation.

At the time we wanted to let everything sink in and die down before we started making random changes in a panic, and I'm fine with that decision, though happy that we are in a better place now. We shouldn't respond too much to anger.

The payment system was not at the forefront of our minds, an afterthought, and our mental shorthand was most definitely "Well, the game is still free, so you don't have to pay if you don't like it". That was a miscalculation, and I hope we have learned from it, but I also do not dwell on it too much.

What gets me is you admitted you didn't think about the payment system thoroughly enough, but refused to clarify the store page right away (many people were confused and thought they had to pay $15/mo to subscribe). That's kinda like watching the place burn without pulling the fire alarm. It's good to stand your ground on new, controversial ideas that you've been planning for a long time (like the introduction of LP), I don't expect you to specifically cater to my every whim when I don't like a change. It'd be a good idea to poll the players to see how they'd react before introducing something that could make or break the playerbase, though.

It's also ironic you'd rather take $1 from 1000 people when there's nothing priced at $1. I dunno what your sales data is like, but I'd probably aim for smaller microtransactions instead of $5 items if I were you.

[Scubas]

are you really this salty over the fact that some game devs didnt immediately implement the thing that you told them to?

no friend, i'm salty because the idea was ridiculed as if it was the dumbest possible thing that a human being has ever suggested about anything in the history of mankind, yet here we are, March 21st in the year of our lord 2016, and said idea is now a part of the game. Why was it ridiculed so heavily if it's a good enough idea to be in the goddamn game? The world may never know.

(You see, not everyone agrees with what you believe.)

well that's too bad since i'm right. no stat cap = people with all the time in the world to waste on a game, win the game. plain and simple. this game never has a chance of being successful if no one's playing it. and i'm not touching it with a ten foot pole after the things that've happened in the past, regardless if there's a stat cap or not.

it's all well and good to pretend that some pretty downright shitty things weren't said or whatever, but they were. There were a lot of times when a well thought out post would get a tl;dr from anyone, even the mods or the devs, just because it didn't align with the current meta of the game at that time.

i'm not asking to be waited on hand and foot for every little suggestion I make. I just find it a bit humorous that after all the bitching and moaning that was done any time a stat cap was suggested, it's now implemented. I'm entitled to my pound of flesh since I was one of the forerunners of that idea while it was being demonstrably shitted on by a vast majority of the community, yet now is a part of the game. whether or not this vitriolic community thinks i'm correct in believing so or not isn't any of my concern. I owe nothing to you people and life will continue that way forever.

also, thanks jorb for the actually concise response for once, no sarcasm there. It's a shame you feel that way about 3d. There aren't enough games with a 2d aesthetic that have the sort of depth haven has, and while I understand where you're coming from regarding a technical aspect, I still maintain it would be leaps and bounds better than the current style, but that's just my opinion. as for the people actually canceling subs over stat caps, I maintain what i said about it being retarded. Though I am curious as to how this process unfolded, since the time it has taken you to "come around" to going through with the idea of stat caps being implemented doesn't necessarily align with your feelings about the FEP system being well-made.

[Ukhata]

tiny question.
who did the ridiculing of your idea?
did jorb/loftar do so?
or other players.
cuz if it was other players, its hardly jorb/loftars fault.....
your mention of the option may well have been the seed for it happening now.
soo... just a bit food for thought.

[Ragnar214]

Is the new world 250x250 minimaps like it says or is this map http://odditown.com/haven/map/#x=-123.2&y=62.47&zoom=3 just not complete yet? Has anyone hit the edge?

[RamboMesser]

Is the new world 250x250 minimaps like it says or is this map http://odditown.com/haven/map/#x=-123.2&y=62.47&zoom=3 just not complete yet? Has anyone hit the edge?

people have reached the magical invisible wall that blocks us all inside. The world hasnt been enlarged over the initially announced size yet and probably wont ever be. Jorb said something along the lines: " i dont see the world getting cramped so there is no need to enlarge it".

[Ragnar214]

Are there any big open villages or kingdoms/factions to join up to?

And thanks for the info RamboMesser. That was dumb of me I was like why is the map only 125x125 I forgot to take into account the negative planes :p

[dafels]

Are there any big open villages or kingdoms/factions to join up to?

And thanks for the info RamboMesser

viewtopic.php?f=56&t=46821

brodgar I guess