Why Haven & Hearth isn't popular?

[jorb]

@Jorb, if you havent viewed JordanColes' recent feasting video/stream on twitch, you might find it interesting.
to make a long story short, he goes from ~300 strength to ~900 in one session. might be good insight on how folks ab/use satiations, symbel, feasting.

We're well aware. Will be looked at at an opportune moment. Thanks.

[dafels]

Satiations is a tedious mechanic made up of hot garbage. Bonfire bonus is required which puts people without friends/the ability to log on multiple characters at a big disadvantage.

Also a complete lack at stat caps leads to situations that we have right now where there are people with 5000 BASE strength characters and ua/mc which can never be caught up to.
Pls add stat caps of maximum 1000 for combat stats, remove the satiation system entirely and maybe even remove the hunger meter as well because really those things are only hurting new players and no one else

this, satiations is a terrible mechanic

[MagicManICT]

To sum up satiations:

Created to: add complexity and strategy to eating, fix grinding large values in attributes with little effort

What it does: complicates the game only until the factory is set up and running, only marginally slows stat grinding.

Do I have this right?

I don't know what the top stats are ATM, or if anyone has really pushed to the levels seen in legacy (6-7k STR to bash walls w3, not sure about w5 or w6). It at least seems to have kept the peak numbers down somewhat, but that may be due to not needing to push to those levels, either.

[Robben_DuMarsch]

Satations should be revisited, not removed.
It's there to stop people from eating the same food in mega-quantities with no variation to their diet or production chain.
It should theoretically stop people from identifying the most time-FEP efficient food and ignoring others that give the same FEP bonuses.

Of course with all the other bonuses that reduce satiations, hunger %, etc, it renders the mechanic less effective.

There are posters here that complain about the tedium in eating food.
Well it'd probably be less tedious if you didn't have mountains of botted food to grind through.

Do you really want a return to W7 where you actually had a bot to eat your botted food?
I still remember when I finished my W7 Union Client cheese bot, and I had 48 LC of cheese, and I decided it'd be less work to write a script to eat the food rather than do it manually.

But then I haven't played in a while. Maybe you're already at that point. ¯\_(ツ)_/¯

Regardless, satiations and feasts should be reiterated to keep the intent of the mechanic intact, but to diminish the ease of sidestepping the hunger time-gating and variety mechanics for veterans with high quality goods, production chains, and alts on demand.

[Robben_DuMarsch]

My proposal is simple, perhaps taking an axe to the situation rather than a scalpel:
Take all bonuses that modify satiation and hunger %, and replace them with mere % bonus to base FEP gain. This includes drinks which reduce satiations.

Rewrite the progression formulas to introduce effective softcaps rather than hardcaps, but phase them in over tiers. (For both attributes and skills)

1-100, progression as it is now.
100-300, every incremental step is substantially harder than it is now.
300-600, every incremental step is substantially more difficult than the previous tier. (Characters need to complete a quest that unlocks this tier, that also makes them susceptible to perma-death and not hearth-back on death.)
600+ every incremental step is super difficult creating a softcap that requires ridiculous efforts to meaningfully advance beyond.

... allow a character to retire once they've reached 300 in any skill/attribute, and gain a permanent +10 in a single attribute/skill they've reached 300 in for future generations, which ignores the softcap. (Perhaps find a nice way to tie this generational system to credos as well).

This should strike a reasonable balance between protecting the barrier to entry for new players, the need of the game's economy to promote consumption, the desire of certain vets to maintain permanent long-term character progression, keeping early and mid-game content relevant (bears may still be dangerous!), and some of that nostalgic edge of your seat PvP for powergamers. But what do I know?

[jordancoles]

There are posters here that complain about the tedium in eating food.
Well it'd probably be less tedious if you didn't have mountains of botted food to grind through.

Lol fuk off m8

Total assumption and generalization here. You eat like 20-30 pieces of food and then you need to go and reset your satiations. It's not like you need a full mansion of food before you'll feel the grind of it.

[jordancoles]

... allow a character to retire once they've reached 300 in any skill/attribute, and gain a permanent +10 in a single attribute/skill they've reached 300 in for future generations, which ignores the softcap. (Perhaps find a nice way to tie this generational system to credos as well).

Couldn't I just make a character, grind str/ua to 300 and then 'retire' to get 310 and then kill myself to eat again and repeat?

You could stay in the safe 'retired' range which would be exempt from permadeath while grinding up over maxed stats in chunks of 10
It would be more cost effective for lp/fep as well

Einhar is back in the game as well so that would give a reason to boost stats as well

[Sprinkle]

Here are four reasons I feel this game is not more popular,

• We need more ways to communicate with people in the game that we don't know, often times many people are running away from eachother, if there is some sort of intuitive global chat that fit into the game somehow or other such thing it would be beneficial.
• It was not intuitive enough how to get friends to spawn in your location, it took over a week of playing to figure out that you can build a Wilderness Beacon that lets someone enter a password to spawn there in the character creation room, because I had not learned all the materials for it(clay), I never saw it in the list of buildable objects, perhaps remove clay as a needed material for it. I'd also include building one and lighting it as part of the newb tutorial quests.
• Create a combat tutorial in the character creation room. Combat is not that intuitive to understand compared to other games, I've been playing a few weeks now and I still don't understand it enough... I learned how to get new attacks and build the combat deck, and I'm able to kill most animals but I'm not sure about blocking and other such things.
• This game really needs more to see & do while out in the wilderness as well as more newb tutorial quests, as there is not a whole lot to see while as a newb wandering around except a bunch of trees and boulders and the occasional wild animal or walled claim that you can't enter and I can see why so many people I invite to the game(I've actually got quite a few people to try the game that never have before) end up quitting the same day because of this, they find it very boring. There is actually a ton to do in this game, but I'm talking about the newb experience walking around your first week or so can be quite lackluster..
  
  I'm pretty sure the devs are capable of seeing how many people I've gotten to try the game with me and they never log back in after their first day.
  The following are quotes from people I've gotten to try the game with me and please keep in mind that not all of these people know eachother, nor have all of them played together(many have quit on their first day) and that not all of these quotes come from the same day either, they are all adult gamers aged 18-30:
  Multiple People: "It's not my cup of tea!"
  "It's boring!"
  "Slow.."
  Multiple People: "I don't have time for that!"
  Multiple People: "It looks like Runescape."
  "Its like Runescape, want to try it with us?(Someone asking another person to join(Keep in mind that I never told anyone that it was like Runescape.)"
  Multiple People: "So, its like Minecraft?"
  "It looks oldschool..(They are dissapointed.)"
  "Wait a minute, it's in alpha? I thought it was old...;(They are suprised) Oh it says its been in alpha for many years..(They are dissapointed again)"
  Multiple People: "I don't like how it looks."
  Multiple People: "I thought this game was 2D!(Suprised and shocked)"
  Multiple People: "Haven and Hearthstone?"
  "Isn't that, that cardgame?"
  "(Multiple people while in the game even after a few hours) Oh my, I didn't know I could turn the camera!, I thought this game was 2D all this time!"
  "Haven and what?"
  "Excuse me, what did you say this game is called?"
  Multiple People: "Wait... what did you just say!?"
  Multiple People: "I've never heard of it before..."
  "Uh, how come I've never heard of this before!?"
  Multiple People: "Heaven and Earth?"
  Multiple People: "What's it about?"
  "Are there raids in the game?"(Referring to raids like in World of Warcraft)
  Multiple People: "Oh so it's a browser game? It's trying to open up in my browser!"
  Multiple People: "Is it on steam?"
  Multiple People: "Why can't I find it on steam?"
  Multiple People: "Why isn't it on steam?"
  Multiple People: "Uh..it says theres only 100 something people playing?... It must not be very popular"
  Multiple People: "How do I start the game!?"
  Multiple People: "I can't get my Java to work!"
  "Let me look up the game"(Proceeds to type it into Youtube and finds an old video of the 2D version("Eh I don't like how it looks...I'm not really interested..")
  "Uhh what am I?" "What am I doing?"
  "I thought I picked the other gender for my character..."
  "It won't let me add you as a kin while in character creation..."
  "Where is the animal skull I put the password in, I can't find it?(It took them 3 attempts to find it(3 different characters))"
  Multiple People: "How do I delete my other characters!?"
  "I want to use this name for my character, how hard is it to kill my other character so I can use the name!?"
  (Someone wanders off that only started playing 5 minutes ago;"I was going to try and kill a boar to make armour!")
  "OH! So I have to find the item first for the recipes to appear(at this point, this person seemed much more interested in the game, whereas before apparently they thought there wasn't much to do in the game at all apparently since they had little to no crafting recipes available.)
  "Oh! I didn't see that hair changing pool the first time!"
  (After people burn in the fire: "Oh my gosh this game is SO LOUD! Let me turn down my sound!")
  "How come I can't put this string on the fishing pole?"
  "How do I get out of the cart?"
  "A Kook sah?(Kuksa)" "What's that?" "Is that even a word?" "I've never heard of that before!")
  (99% of the people who barely spent much time in the game at all "Oh yeah I don't have much time to play that game"(Meanwhile most of those people are playing other games constantly and my assumption is correct that the newb experience bored them so much that they never gave the game a chance, most of them never even finished the first two quests let alone the first one)

[Potjeh]

If satiations are gonna stay, I'd like to see drinks that increase satiations of food groups instead of their own, so you have control over resetting them. The cost should be to have drinking deplete hunger. We'd at least one drink per food group, though I'd rather see each drink work on two satiations so there's plenty of combos to make room for plenty of different drinks. It just hurts me to see all this fruit we have in the game and not be able to distill various rakijas from it

[MagicManICT]

We need more ways to communicate with people in the game that we don't know, often times many people are running away from eachother, if there is some sort of intuitive global chat that fit into the game somehow or other such thing it would be beneficial.

We used to have a global chat. Not sure why it went away... (Used to be a dev comment on this, but I think it was lost with the forum data pre-w8)

It was not intuitive enough how to get friends to spawn in your location, it took over a week of playing to figure out that you can build a Wilderness Beacon that lets someone enter a password to spawn there in the character creation room

Unfortunately, we can't have people spawning at each others' hearth fires because of alt abuse. Long term, we do have charter stones for established villages. The downside to this is that those that establish villages early usually don't want random people spawning there, and public spawning points usually aren't safe. We do have newer rules on this, and I'm not sure anyone has set up this sort of public spawning since the "visitor" rule was added.