Simple way to make H&H GREAT!

[khang0000]

The game is base on crafting activities and this is its own beauty, we play it because of that. We build a great castle for long time is a worth and a kind of enjoy after finishing the work.

But grinding make ppl really tired, it is time consuming. Most of things grinding and making thing abundant, and ppl easily get bored with that. The current mechanic with stamina and health is trying to solve this problem, it make ppl can do many thing in a short time but it is not fully cover the problem.

I think we should have some new mechanic that help to boost quality of item, like a gambling style mechanic. E.g. You can make gliding item, such as heartwood leaves, to be dying with current dye system, and each time they can increase the item's quality. Do not limit this mechanic to iron bar quality. This mechanic have 2 main features:

- At first, it create a space where we can bet on own luck, it is up and down randomly.
- Secondly, it can boost the game economic, because it can solve the problem that only a few of players have access to pit clay, cave clay, salt... And for more, if any kind of wood, any secrect combination, that player have to discover themself can make thing with better quality.

[skltnk00]

The game is base on crafting activities and this is its own beauty, we play it because of that. We build a great castle for long time is a worth and a kind of enjoy after finishing the work.

But grinding make ppl really tired, it is time consuming. Most of things grinding and making thing abundant, and ppl easily get bored with that. The current mechanic with stamina and health is trying to solve this problem, it make ppl can do many thing in a short time but it is not fully cover the problem.

I think we should have some new mechanic that help to boost quality of item, like a gambling style mechanic. E.g. You can make gliding item, such as heartwood leaves, to be dying with current dye system, and each time they can increase the item's quality. Do not limit this mechanic to iron bar quality. This mechanic have 2 main features:

- At first, it create a space where we can bet on own luck, it is up and down randomly.
- Secondly, it can boost the game economic, because it can solve the problem that only a few of players have access to pit clay, cave clay, salt... And for more, if any kind of wood, any secrect combination, that player have to discover themself can make thing with better quality.

I don't understand how this even related to the current topic. You might want to create a new one to express your idea there.

[dafels]

you're making this game more of a chore to play with all this. no thanks

"thats cuz of how it works irl" is trash argument for ideas cuz most of them are boring and shit like yours here hehhhhhhhhheeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeee

[skltnk00]

you're making this game more of a chore to play with all this. no thanks

"thats cuz of how it works irl" is trash argument for ideas cuz most of them are boring and shit like yours here hehhhhhhhhheeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeee

You're failed to see the whole picture. Let me explain.

Now here's a lack of balance in this game because of overpowered characters.
This negatively affects all kinds of player interactions, making no sense and no means to compete with those who started to play first.
Why they are overpowered? - Because character progress is unlimited.
Why can't you limit it? - Because some people would have no reason to play after reaching the level cap.
And because it increases a hypothetical threat of proportions of combat bots being used.
Now we have 3 options:

1) Just continue with how it works now.
2) Cap the level
3) Make a smart solution

Infinite progression is absolutely retarded. I don't know how it is possible not to notice that problem. It is ENORMOUS!
Level cap is a solution. And it is obviously better.
But people somehow not going to procceed this way. Because there's infinitely small chance of running things to do. Which is also retarded.

So i'm proposing to make players maintain things instead of going to infinite numbers.

Chores. This is crafting mmo. It's 99% chores.

[sMartins]

I suggested the same some time ago, mainly about quality decay ... to boost trading and with it players interactions.
Your idea is cool, and I'm totally with you, but the problem is games doesn't work like that, people want easy stuff here and now ( see customs clients, etc ... ).
One of the main rules of game development is you don't want to punish players never, specially in a MMO kind of game, you need to handle them by your hand like with childs, so not punish them for not doing stuff but rewarding them when they do stuff, it's obviously the same thing ... but, well, you know, players .... it's how it works.

Then there is another rule that H&H doesn't follow very well, cause it's still an "early" game ... this rule is to protect players from themselves, and for example customs clients and exploits are very bad in this regard ... bringing back the math in a game is one of the worst thing you can do.
I just watched this video some days ago that is called: How Game Designers Protect Players From Themselves
It's interesting and explain a bit about those stuff.

[dafels]

1) Just continue with how it works now.
2) Cap the level
3) Make a smart solution

Chores. This is crafting mmo. It's 99% chores.

this is not a smart solution, this is the dumbest solution of them all.
and no it is not 99% chores, your idea of aging and decay is trash, face it. All decay ideas just make the game more terribly tedious and these ideas should be added to banlist so they dont litter this glorious forums of great ideas

[DDDsDD999]

Decay and upkeep is one of the worst parts of the game. Falling behind the curve in terms of stats and quality when players go inactive is already annoying, no need to punish it further. Pretty much all the ideas in OP are shit. Arguing for a game mechanic "because real life" is shit reasoning.

[Axatros]

Well you have absolutely no arguments. Please provide any.
Here's template:
1) This idea sucks.
2) Why it sucks. (Arguments here) (It sucks cuz it just sucks, I don't want it in my game)
3) Here's how i think it needs to be done.

You went from 1 to 3 without using 2. Say why you think it sucks. Cuz having your opinion in a big font doesn't automaticaly make you right.

How about: You are trying to turn H&H into some crapp ass strange game? Everyone can propose what they want in the game but it does not mean other ppl will like it. Your idea is not stupid it just unfits Haven & Hearth and that's why I am against it.

I used bigger font to focus other players' attention on my point of view which means upgreading your ideas into good, playable mechanics.

[Granger]

Falling behind the curve in terms of stats and quality when players go inactive is already annoying

Only because the nolifers that don't go onto vacation continue to raise the infinite numbers.

I think we all (maybe except the 'only pvp is great, rest is shit' faction) can agree on that we have several broken mechanics in the game:

• feasting being completely broken (as you can add 600 levels in a few hours) as a very prominent example in the food area.
• Characters being able to solo mammoths/trolls and freshspawn characters being able to kill bears within a few hours.
• Being able to compost high quality animals for quality mulch that is absolutely better than what you can dig anywhere in the world.
• Spiraled axes that can be used to split up a q10 block to a q200 branch (with the resulting effects in kiln products quality) within the first few months of a world.
• Having one quality x tool completely removes the need for another of same (or even lower) quality as these are permanent.
• Characters with 10k combat stats combined with the fact of open world nonconsentual PvP.

Looking at that I think that it would be better if the qualities of what is obtainable have a limit that, while being be somewhat soft in the sense that you could jump some hoops to raise it for a little while, effectively limits the maximum of obtainable gear and stats in a world to (or closely around) a given level. And stuff and skills that dosn't stay at the current level but are obsoleted by the next, better quality iteration that comes out of the crafter or by the foe that ate another wagonload of <bestdiet> but obsolete themselves with use and/or over time.

So basically the same grind as we have now, with the difference of numbers no longer going up endlessly but reaching a reasonable level and stay there as long as you keep the fire burning.

Then we could:

• Have PvE that isn't brutally impossible at the start, then two days of fun while being a challenge and after eating/studying another cupboard or two of stuff being (and eternally staying) boringly easy.
• Take a vacation for some time (or coming late into a world) as we could grind back up the the common level (relatively) quickly, instead of effectively being behind forever.
• Having trade that isn't solely 'best q on server vs. gametime tokens' for gear and 'larp is fun' for the rest.
• ...

[skltnk00]

I suggested the same some time ago, mainly about quality decay ... to boost trading and with it players interactions.
Your idea is cool, and I'm totally with you, but the problem is games doesn't work like that, people want easy stuff here and now ( see customs clients, etc ... ).
One of the main rules of game development is you don't want to punish players never, specially in a MMO kind of game, you need to handle them by your hand like with childs, so not punish them for not doing stuff but rewarding them when they do stuff, it's obviously the same thing ... but, well, you know, players .... it's how it works.

Then there is another rule that H&H doesn't follow very well, cause it's still an "early" game ... this rule is to protect players from themselves, and for example customs clients and exploits are very bad in this regard ... bringing back the math in a game is one of the worst thing you can do.
I just watched this video some days ago that is called: How Game Designers Protect Players From Themselves
It's interesting and explain a bit about those stuff.

Thanks for a kind reply.

My thoughts are based on the fact that this game is much more punishing than any game i had experience with.
Permadeath in conjunction with super-grindy limitless character progression is the mother of punishment.
In fact i've tried to make it much less punishing by bringing the limit of progression.
And decay is not intended to make players fix things every single second. If properly balanced is not going to punish anyone.
It's intended to simply replace the urge to do something for players who have reached "the cap".

I'm not saying my idea is flaweless though. I simply felt guilty for not sharing my simple thoughts with community.
And i honestly thought it might help to make a better game for everyone.