Credo progression doesn't feel good

[Valnar]

Disclaimer: I haven't gotten too far in the credo system, I've only gotten forager and I'm currently in the first few quests of farmer and I'm primairly a solo player.

So my thoughts on will probably differ from other players. However, the progression I've had through credos just doesn't feel good.

The complete randomness of the quests just takes out all of the fun of it, at least for me. Some quests could take 2 minutes to do, some 2 hours, some 2 days, some I might not even be able to do yet and its all just a roll of the dice which one I get. I know that I can just roll the dice again by abandoning an especially hard quest, that could be a great boon and I get a chain of real easy quests, or I could just get screwed over and get a harder quest than the one I abandoned.

Its just completely out of my power, and progression could be either a cakewalk or a hellscape or something inbetween.

I'm not arguing that progression should be fast or anything like that, just more consistent. For example, if I had to plant a bunch of each crop and study like a bunch of wax seals to get the farmer credo, that would at least let me have constant progression each day, and I'd have a clear goal that I'm going for.

Now I don't really know if I have a good replacement that I would actually suggest, because I do see issues with even the example I just gave. However the complete randomness, or atleast the feeling of complete randomness of the current credos just feels bad for me.

[ctopolon3]

also here should be limited amount of quests per credo... 50 for exapmle (or 20for stage1_credo, 40 for stage2_credos and 60 for last in chain (hermit/nomad/bs ))

doing 70quests for hunter, after cavehermit = sucks

also do another credo\quest, while doing long quest (7d crop, 3d taming) should be awesome

also ~1500quests for all credos or ~150+15suicides, makes me think

[loftar]

I'm not arguing that progression should be fast or anything like that, just more consistent.

Hmm, I don't want to deny that you may have a point, but I'm still not sure I agree. I don't mind that the quests require wildly different amounts of effort to fulfill. I tend to see it rather as getting a few easy ones in between the "real" quests.

[Valnar]

I'm not arguing that progression should be fast or anything like that, just more consistent.

Hmm, I don't want to deny that you may have a point, but I'm still not sure I agree. I don't mind that the quests require wildly different amounts of effort to fulfill. I tend to see it rather as getting a few easy ones in between the "real" quests.

Its not really just that there is a wildly different amount effort for each quest, its that there is seemingly no weighting on how often difficult/easy quests show up. Its a situation of RNG compounding on RNG.

From what I've seen so far, there could be like 4 easy quests in a row or 4 hard quests in a row or any possibility in between at any point the quest line.

If there was some more deterministic aspect of it, such as 2-3 easy quests than a hard quest or the final quest(s) of a specific perk in a credo is hard one, then it might feel a bit more fair. In conjunction with that, maybe also some way to show the expected difficulty of a quest too.

[azrid]

I agree different tier credos should have a fixed quest amount so suicide questing stops.

[Granger]

I'm not arguing that progression should be fast or anything like that, just more consistent.

Hmm, I don't want to deny that you may have a point, but I'm still not sure I agree. I don't mind that the quests require wildly different amounts of effort to fulfill. I tend to see it rather as getting a few easy ones in between the "real" quests.

From viewtopic.php?p=756051#p756051

Thinking more about what I really dislike about the 'tame x' or 'wait for y': the 'cost' of credos (raising difficultly level) is in the amount of serialized quests, not in the amount of tasks to complete.

So... what about, instead of serializing them into individual quests (as currently) that force us to sit out timers to progress, you give us the list of all the tasks to complete for this level upfront, to complete at our leasure?

You could press that into your current implementation by the start of a credo level spawning all the tasks as quests, the only thing to change would be that abandoning one of these would spawn additional ones (like two new ones, plus an additional one per time we already abandoned in that level or even the whole credo) instead of reducing the level of the credo. And while at it, make external failures of quests (people that destroy questgivers) simply redirect to a new questgiver (or relocate the destroyed one to some object nearby).

Then I would have less of a problem with pointless long-term objectives (like taming an animal I already have plenty of, planting more trellis crops than a faction ever will need, harvesting enough wheat for a year of my baking, studying stuff that noone would ever study willingly or gathering a curio/experience I'm very unlikely to see) as one could work on the other, easier to reach, objectives in the meantime while the timers run on the suff that's just there to slow us down.

[DDDsDD999]

Thinking more about what I really dislike about the 'tame x' or 'wait for y': the 'cost' of credos (raising difficultly level) is in the amount of serialized quests, not in the amount of tasks to complete.

So... what about, instead of serializing them into individual quests (as currently) that force us to sit out timers to progress, you give us the list of all the tasks to complete for this level upfront, to complete at our leasure?

You could press that into your current implementation by the start of a credo level spawning all the tasks as quests, the only thing to change would be that abandoning one of these would spawn additional ones (like two new ones, plus an additional one per time we already abandoned in that level or even the whole credo) instead of reducing the level of the credo. And while at it, make external failures of quests (people that destroy questgivers) simply redirect to a new questgiver (or relocate the destroyed one to some object nearby).

Then I would have less of a problem with pointless long-term objectives (like taming an animal I already have plenty of, planting more trellis crops than a faction ever will need, harvesting enough wheat for a year of my baking, studying stuff that noone would ever study willingly or gathering a curio/experience I'm very unlikely to see) as one could work on the other, easier to reach, objectives in the meantime while the timers run on the suff that's just there to slow us down.

Signed. Quests atm are just knowing when to smash that Abandon button.

[razfen]

I'd be far happier to have easier quests, but getting hard locked into credo paths, or only being allowed to get a certain amount of them.