Prelude: World 11

[Yorla]

in the stream they said they didn't had tought about it yet, they did said something about charterstones not working across the ocean, so maybe there isn't going to be transatlantic tunnels either.

I'm afraid this (plus pirating which everyone seem to dream about) will kill the trade completely. And trade was always huge part of the game, players interaction and overall progression. Without trade what pwp actions we have left? Only pvp combat which isn't perfect to say the least. Besides, mining now is much more dangerous than before, so making such tunnel is gonna take some time and effort. I'm against blocking out each island with underwater barriers.

PS: On the opposite hand, if continents are going to be large enough, local markets will thrive.

[Scilly_guy]

I agree, reduce the amount of ore in the map by 50%. /s

Those of us who watched the stream yesterday know that loftar said he's going to increase the map size to the point where there'd be the same amount of inhabitable dry land (and therefore, presumably, the same amount of normal underground and ore) as there was this world.
ie if world 10 is 200km^2 and the next one will be half ocean then it'll be a 400km^2 world to compensate.
So no, the amount of ore in the world would not be affected, and in fact not implementing any sort of underground ocean or waterlogged caves would actually vastly increase the amount of ore in world 11

They also mentioned the strong probability that there would be more cave levels, so if the only minable tiles are under the land then there would still be more ore.

On the subject of how to implement an underground barrier, it obviously needs to be something that can be implemented easily as there is only 11 days left until W11. I would suggest a new form of collapsing tile that instead of dropping boulders drops deep water tiles (if that is possible), other tiles can change their biome so I don't see why not. These collapsing tiles would not be stopped by mine supports and would get more common the further from solid ground on the layer above you get. So on layer 1 (the first cave layer) you can mine out under water a little way, (the code could simply check if there is land in the 8 map tiles surrounding the one above where you are mining). On the layer bellow you would be able to mine out slightly further, so on and so forth.

[Granger]

I'm afraid this will kill the trade completely.

Why would it? An underserved remote area will make it even more profitable to deliver goods there. Sure, would be a bit more of an effort - but that is what the merchants claim to need to get paid extra for (their markup), isn't it?

That's the exact reason why I would like to see the developers getting rid of teleportation: To return relevance of locality. To impose a cost (for security) to transporting goods. To enable new professions, like security specialists that travel with convois to protect these against bandits.

[Adder1234]

I'm afraid this will kill the trade completely.

Why would it? An underserved remote area will make it even more profitable to deliver goods there. Sure, would be a bit more of an effort - but that is what the merchants claim is they need to get paid extra for (their markup), isn't it?

That's the exact reason why I would like to see the developers getting rid of teleportation: To return relevance of locality. To impose a cost (for security) to transporting goods. To enable new professions, like security specialists that travel with convois to protect these against bandits.

My thoughts exactly. There's a reason why trading was one of most profitable and most dangerous professions in ancient time and I would love to see that reflected in haven.

[Hrenli]

They also mentioned the strong probability that there would be more cave levels

What? Was it during the stream? I managed to miss that... Do you remember which part of the stream it was roughly?

[shubla]

I think they also mentioned that there will be more levels not only below, but above as well. You could build ladders up and build on clouds!

[DPblH]

They also mentioned the strong probability that there would be more cave levels

What? Was it during the stream? I managed to miss that... Do you remember which part of the stream it was roughly?

~1:07:00

[Hrenli]

~1:07:00

Thanks! To my defense Jorb really did a god job swallowing the word "levels"...

[Yorla]

Why would it? An underserved remote area will make it even more profitable to deliver goods there. Sure, would be a bit more of an effort - but that is what the merchants claim to need to get paid extra for (their markup), isn't it?

That's the exact reason why I would like to see the developers getting rid of teleportation: To return relevance of locality. To impose a cost (for security) to transporting goods. To enable new professions, like security specialists that travel with convois to protect these against bandits.

I understand your point completely and I also thought about security for caravans. But in current state the less resources you have on your isolated island, the less you can afford (even combatwise), the less interest you are to the merchants. Poor hermits yet again get left behind. And the other issue - there is no any kind of security for ships. Not even cargo is protected by keys. If you want traveling merchants, we have to ask for a special trading vessel (which actually knarrs historically were) protected from the immediate robbery by mechanics plus warship to escort it - smaller, faster, more maneuverable and armed (drakkar?) This way even two players already can have a chance of success in their journey. Even better if those new knarrs had en interface for trading right from aboard the vessel. Or special structures (lighthouses mb) providing sanctuary and/or conveniences for merchants and customers. I don't know... These are just my fantasies, but with introduction of naval combat and piracy on large scale AND island isolation, something needs to be done by game mechanics.

[Adder1234]

I understand your point completely and I also thought about security for caravans. But in current state the less resources you have on your isolated island, the less you can afford (even combatwise), the less interest you are to the merchants. Poor hermits yet again get left behind. And the other issue - there is no any kind of security for ships. Not even cargo is protected by keys. If you want traveling merchants, we have to ask for a special trading vessel (which actually knarrs historically were) protected from the immediate robbery by mechanics plus warship to escort it - smaller, faster, more maneuverable and armed (drakkar?) This way even two players already can have a chance of success in their journey. Even better if those new knarrs had en interface for trading right from aboard the vessel. Or special structures (lighthouses mb) providing sanctuary and/or conveniences for merchants and customers. I don't know... These are just my fantasies, but with introduction of naval combat and piracy on large scale AND island isolation, something needs to be done by game mechanics.

The hermits can't have it any worse than they do now. Besides, even on a small island there are still things like precious metals and gemstones, as well as loot from dungeons that might appear. Not to mention localized resources that might spawn there. With the sheer number of quality nodes and different materials available they're sure to have something that they can trade.

As for trading ships, you don't have to fight every pirate that finds you to get to your destination. Just like with travelling overland in haven now, there are obstacles and strategies that you can employ to lose an enemy stronger than you.