List of game breaking balance issues

Thoughts on the further development of Haven & Hearth? Feel free to opine!

Re: List of game breaking balance issues

Postby wonder-ass » Mon Jan 13, 2020 4:00 pm

Granger wrote:
Scholarly Accounts are out of my reach but kinda the amount of time you need to spend in order to achieve this seems balanced to me.

That it's hard to obtain has no logical connection to the effect of it being OP or not.


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Re: List of game breaking balance issues

Postby SnuggleSnail » Mon Jan 13, 2020 4:23 pm

Granger wrote:
Lyrroth wrote:HEART CONTAINERS
I would rather change the effect than item itself. It still should give HHP, but if player gets K.Oed and not killed, the extra hp is refunded in terms of fast regeneration.
How it would work: Player survives being K.Oed and returns to hearthfire. On succesful return, lets say that 50hp from containers is consumed and player wounds are healed as if player have had consumed 50q ancient root.
This way the item retain it's purpouse but it is possible to lose the stack.

So basically turn them into Silver for the Ferryman, to work as a 1up for rage characters succumbing in combat?


The thing he's actually describing is them working exactly how they work now, except you can't KO yourself to get rid of red handed anymore. I really don't mean to be rude, but I don't think either of you have enough game knowledge/experience to have valid opinions about these things.
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Re: List of game breaking balance issues

Postby Ants » Tue Jan 14, 2020 12:19 am

Vraatjuh wrote:
Granger wrote:The problem is that when there is nothing stopping a character from running around slaughtering everyone else that moves... that is exactly what will happen (and did, each and every world so far) and leds to way too many unhappy for of the lulz of a few.

The open PvP + endless growth + permadeath combination does not make a fun game, at least not for longer than some very few months. Simply because there is a certain point at which the penalty for loss of a character gets too massive, possibly not for the ones running around with bot fed alts... but all the rest of normal humans. That's the reason I came up with the suggestion to toggle death using rage: there needs to be something that stops the slaughter of civilians to no longer 'game over' them, so the worlds population dosn't shrink down to the psychopaths that complain that they ran out of targets.


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The downside to bringing back perma-death is just too big for the casual players. It's been such a bless this world, to just be able to go out whenever you want and not be afraid to get killed every time you see something move. It has even led to a lot more interaction with 'strangers' this world, because not everyone is automatically hearthing back anymore.

I always used to make alts for going outside, just because of the risk of getting killed with your main(s).
This world I have actually played with 2 characters max.


People who want a casual game tend not to play Haven, I think. There's waaaaay better peaceful farming simulators out there like Harvest Moon or Minecraft. Taking away permadeath is taking away the main thing that made H&H different.

About player interaction: there's around 200 people online at peak time and there's no telling how many of those are bots. Most new players would spawn in the middle of ruins far from anyone active.

I played back when dying was easier and still interacted with friendly neighbors. If you're really scared you could always meet people behind visitor gates where killers can't get you. Markets are nice little social hubs.
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Re: List of game breaking balance issues

Postby jock » Tue Jan 14, 2020 1:09 am

SnuggleSnail wrote:Uniform quality growth, randomized crop growth times
+quality to local node quests

Problem
There isn't one yet, afaik!
However, I would point out nobody cares about them to the degree they literally didn't work all of world 10 and nobody cared about it enough to even notice it was broken. However, I am 2000% sure eventually some nerd will figure out how to abuse it and get Q500 cave clay. the 99.99% chance somebody will break it doesn't seem worth the upside of it existing in its current form



I always thought this should be more useful, it should be the main reason to do quests Near you to improve your area resources. It would also drive desire to conqueror that area after it has been increased.

It should be broken into categories increases:

Increases natural things in the area.

Dirt
Clay
trees
Small animals
Medium animal
Large animals
Flowers/forages

This would mean that over time doing a quest in an area would build it up so natural clay dirt and tress could all reach any ql if enough quests are done.

New players would have a much higher chance to get access to these so instead of them joining and either starting with 10ql trees, scrounging for old decayed town or scraping together enough to buy some tools.

The area might have 40-60ql trees naturally with 80ql dirt nad 70ql clay etc This would reduce the gap between high players and low players as the world would naturally develop
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Re: List of game breaking balance issues

Postby SnuggleSnail » Tue Jan 14, 2020 1:15 am

>walk into an abandoned base
>Pick up Q400 flax, Q300 cow bones
>Make compost bin and herbalist table
>Bypass the advantage of multiple months of trees/small animals/flowers/soil/whatever increasing

Or
>Abuse the shit out of it and get Q 500 cave clay
>Be gods of industry in every regard with no way for anybody else to compete

There are literally two ways for local quality node increases to be. It's either 100% irrelevant, or it's OP enough to justify a world reset. Given how poorly things that people actually care about are balanced, this of all things being a loose end seems silly to me.
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Re: List of game breaking balance issues

Postby Ants » Tue Jan 14, 2020 2:28 am

jock wrote:
SnuggleSnail wrote:Uniform quality growth, randomized crop growth times
+quality to local node quests

Problem
There isn't one yet, afaik!
However, I would point out nobody cares about them to the degree they literally didn't work all of world 10 and nobody cared about it enough to even notice it was broken. However, I am 2000% sure eventually some nerd will figure out how to abuse it and get Q500 cave clay. the 99.99% chance somebody will break it doesn't seem worth the upside of it existing in its current form



I always thought this should be more useful, it should be the main reason to do quests Near you to improve your area resources. It would also drive desire to conqueror that area after it has been increased.

It should be broken into categories increases:

Increases natural things in the area.

Dirt
Clay
trees
Small animals
Medium animal
Large animals
Flowers/forages

This would mean that over time doing a quest in an area would build it up so natural clay dirt and tress could all reach any ql if enough quests are done.

New players would have a much higher chance to get access to these so instead of them joining and either starting with 10ql trees, scrounging for old decayed town or scraping together enough to buy some tools.

The area might have 40-60ql trees naturally with 80ql dirt nad 70ql clay etc This would reduce the gap between high players and low players as the world would naturally develop

If there was competition, the moment a node reached a high enough level someone would claim and palisade it. Sprucecaps would not have access to it.

New players can get decent q stuff by going on discord and asking for people's outdated leftovers.
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Re: List of game breaking balance issues

Postby Vraatjuh » Tue Jan 14, 2020 7:47 am

Ants wrote:
Vraatjuh wrote:
Granger wrote:


People who want a casual game tend not to play Haven, I think. There's waaaaay better peaceful farming simulators out there like Harvest Moon or Minecraft. Taking away permadeath is taking away the main thing that made H&H different.

About player interaction: there's around 200 people online at peak time and there's no telling how many of those are bots. Most new players would spawn in the middle of ruins far from anyone active.

I played back when dying was easier and still interacted with friendly neighbors. If you're really scared you could always meet people behind visitor gates where killers can't get you. Markets are nice little social hubs.


The problem with Haven pre world 11 perma-death system is not so much the fact that you can die and lose your character. It is the way HOW you die.
Dying from your own mistakes by swimming too far, jumping into a dungeon without being prepared, strolling too close to a pack of wolves; that is all fine. It's like playing any ARPG on hardcore. It's an additional thrill which, agreeing with you, a lot of players probably like and which is atleast one of the many reasons for me to play Haven.

Being killed by Frost because he is a complete prick or any other random asshole, is definitely not a reason to play Haven. This is why the current system was implented, to protect the casuals (probably the biggest part of the population) from people like them. And bless Jorbtar for doing so.

Personally I wouldn't mind seeing some form of easier perma-death return in PvE though.
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Re: List of game breaking balance issues

Postby Ants » Tue Jan 14, 2020 8:43 am

Vraatjuh wrote:The problem with Haven pre world 11 perma-death system is not so much the fact that you can die and lose your character. It is the way HOW you die.
Dying from your own mistakes by swimming too far, jumping into a dungeon without being prepared, strolling too close to a pack of wolves; that is all fine. It's like playing any ARPG on hardcore. It's an additional thrill which, agreeing with you, a lot of players probably like and which is atleast one of the many reasons for me to play Haven.

Being killed by Frost because he is a complete prick or any other random asshole, is definitely not a reason to play Haven. This is why the current system was implented, to protect the casuals (probably the biggest part of the population) from people like them. And bless Jorbtar for doing so.

Personally I wouldn't mind seeing some form of easier perma-death return in PvE though.

If PvE death returned, random assholes would just lure wild animals near sprucecaps to kill them. Heck, this world people used sandfleas to kill each other.

Personally, I see no problem with getting killed by other players. It's only frustrating when you get one shotted by a titan because his botted gear and stats make him stronger than a normal player could ever hope to be. A cap on pvp stats could probably solve that. I don't know much about pvp, though, so I won't comment on this any further.
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Re: List of game breaking balance issues

Postby Lyrroth » Wed Jan 15, 2020 10:45 am

Ants wrote:Personally, I see no problem with getting killed by other players. It's only frustrating when you get one shotted by a titan because his botted gear and stats make him stronger than a normal player could ever hope to be. A cap on pvp stats could probably solve that. I don't know much about pvp, though, so I won't comment on this any further.


personally i do since every world there was problem that first day killer alts were already set and running. not to say that not even week into game there were bronze soldiers running all around world killing anybody on sight. ad killed a lot of people just to take their 10q bronze sword and trying to pillage their 20q flax despite being far away from home or have no use. there is a difference to establishing domination between factions or securing ground from just running around and smacking everyone with your dick then complain its small pp or big PP. mind you that most is clueless how to defend or run against people with tremendous experience. one is to learn from experience and mistakes one is to get stabbed like a lollipop for fun.
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Re: List of game breaking balance issues

Postby SnuggleSnail » Thu Jan 16, 2020 9:17 pm

tbh you're probably a hypocrite if you're okay with noobs dying to all the dumb shit they constantly die to, but also think the one thing that's threatening to you(other players) shouldn't be able to kill you
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