Fog of waLL (hiding of enclosed areas) +anim

[Sidran]

I was not really sure how to search for this, so if it was suggested before please delete it. Thanks.

Areas enclosed with palisade or brick wall should not be observable from outside. Some graphic mask (desaturation or something) would fill that gap graphically. Point is that anyone outside cannot see player(s) inside. Or whether they are online or offline (if hearthfire is inside). Server simply doesnt send any dynamic info (except local chat) of player(s) inside to those outside. Simalar thing applies vice versa. Player(s) inside closed palisade dont see whats outside (can only see local chat if there is any).

Now, we get a new building: Watchtower. It could be built anywhere, inside or outside and it allows players to surpass mentioned mask in a certain radius. Player needs to enter it by right clicking to use it. Opening gates or missing wall sections remove mask inside and outside.

Additionaly, this could save some server load and bandwidth.

EDIT: Further clarification

[loftar]

Additionaly, this could save some server load and bandwidth.

Bandwidth aside, it would certainly increase the load to quite unbearable levels since the server would have to do constant line-of-sight tracing to determine what is visible.

[Gringo]

The calculation about what shall be hidden could be tricky.

[Sidran]

Additionaly, this could save some server load and bandwidth.

Bandwidth aside, it would certainly increase the load to quite unbearable levels since the server would have to do constant line-of-sight tracing to determine what is visible.

Try to look at it as indoor locations. Some events allow you to see people inside (and vice versa). Thats all, no complex line of sight calculations.
Enclosure calculation would not be so frequent:
1. When two palisade sections meet (during building)
2. When palisade section disappear (decay or destruction).

In second case, calculation is done only if mentioned wall has mask at all (it might already lost its mask on other places). Those two dont happen so frequently. For all other cases, precalculated masks would apply just like with claims. So, a single wall enclosure would have its precalculated mask tied to it until one wall section is missing or gate is opened. Mask on, mask off, mask remove.

So its much simpler than it might sound. Or am I still missing something?

[Bl1tzX]

Chances are, if they come to look at who's online at the current moment they have characters with lots of points in Melee/Unarmed and Strength.
If they don't, they won't be too much of a threat to you then.

Basically, I don't like this idea too much, since it'd only be logical you wouldn't be able to view anything outside from inside the walls too.

[freckleskitty]

This iss far back, im sure palisades arent sealed tight, there are gaps you can look through.

[Sidran]

Basically, I don't like this idea too much, since it'd only be logical you wouldn't be able to view anything outside from inside the walls too.

You obviously dont read what was already written. Its ok, we are all like that sometimes.
Enclosed wall obstructs viewing from inside too. Thats why I proposed introduction of Watchtower which would allow you to see inside or outside of wall while you are in watchtower. People inside walls would have luxury to have permanent watchtowers and observe outside whenever they like. Those outside would need to build outside watchtowers just to throw a look inside or rely on local chat (inferior position).

This iss far back, im sure palisades arent sealed tight, there are gaps you can look through.

You might be sure but this is a game with finite resources. You could also argue that palisade could easily be scaled with tall enough ladders.
Line of simplicity must be drawn somewhere for things to be meaningful and fun. So, I say: palisades and brick walls are perfectly sealed and without peep holes.

[Blxz]

Line of simplicity must be drawn somewhere for things to be meaningful and fun. So, I say: palisades and brick walls are perfectly sealed and without peep holes.

So I say we can see through them. Same as now. This requires no useless effort on the part of the devs and no extra load on the servers. I'd much prefer loftar work on solving more important issues such as combat system, crafting dynamics and possible village expansion or any other sort of future growth issues. Also anything he can do to reduce calculations on the servers part to make it more streamlined. Your suggestion sidran is against this in all cases. useless fluff that doesn't even give us somehting to look at. You want to take the pretties away.... =(

Further more, what stops someone from using a client mod to just see through it. Then you leave the ppl who use the standard client at yet another disadvantage. Man, I could go on for ages about how annoying your idea would be if implemented.

[Flame]

Maibe the idea cant be implemented now.
But honestly, the fog is in lots of games and is nice, USEFULL to hide things or for ambush. To give more satisfaction on exploration, you can find something hard to see, maibe a nice plot of iron etc etc etc.

In this game isn't still possible, because the server need to work on other important things at the moment, and because there should need to deny the No-Standards Client that can remove easily fog.

So, nice idea, but in HH isn't possibile, i'm sorry. You should change too much things that are already bugged but are boring to remove.
(Fake clients, Server Stress, EasyLamering, Few terrain level in game maibe too...etc)

[Sidran]

I'd much prefer loftar work on solving more important issues such as combat system, crafting dynamics and possible village expansion or any other sort of future growth issues. Also anything he can do to reduce calculations on the servers part to make it more streamlined. Your suggestion sidran is against this in all cases.

What comes first is debatable. I can agree with you to an extent. Critical bugs should have priority as well as deep and game determining mechanics. And I believe that my proposal is such a deep and fundamental part of the whole. It makes huge impact on gameplay. So, and thats only my opinion, such mechanics should be implemented as soon as possible.

useless fluff that doesn't even give us somehting to look at. You want to take the pretties away.... =(

You should think about it a bit more before dismissing it as fluff or "eye candy". If implemented, it would highly impact gameplay (as I previously stated). I am not a PR person or lobbyist, I am suggesting something I believe is good basic game mechanic which should be implemented as soon as possible.

Further more, what stops someone from using a client mod to just see through it. Then you leave the ppl who use the standard client at yet another disadvantage. Man, I could go on for ages about how annoying your idea would be if implemented.

No, you dont leave people disadvantaged. And you obviously dont read what is written but would like to comment. Ill quote myself from first post:

...Server simply doesnt send any dynamic info (except local chat) of player(s) inside to those outside. Simalar thing applies vice versa...

So, no metter how modded a client is, it does not receive location or any other info about players inside/outside. You can remove graphic mask, but there wouldnt be anything beneath. Graphical mask is eye candy to fill emptiness. Server on other hand has its numerical mask and sends data to clients only according to it. Ill mention just one advantage, which could further impact gameplay: Cattle inside palisades would save bandwidth and server load in dense areas. Anything about them is simply not sent to anyone outside. As well as all other objects etc. This would allow much richer gaming experience and a lot of additional farm content thanks to lowered bandwidht and server load. Wall outsiders receive only local chat and nothing else (objects, their locations, numbers, cattle, tiles...). Same applies vice versa.

Maibe the idea cant be implemented now.
But honestly, the fog is in lots of games and is nice, USEFULL to hide things or for ambush. To give more satisfaction on exploration, you can find something hard to see, maibe a nice plot of iron etc etc etc.

In this game isn't still possible, because the server need to work on other important things at the moment, and because there should need to deny the No-Standards Client that can remove easily fog.

So, nice idea, but in HH isn't possibile, i'm sorry. You should change too much things that are already bugged but are boring to remove.
(Fake clients, Server Stress, EasyLamering, Few terrain level in game maibe too...etc)

You fallen into a trap of believing what Blxz wrote (without reading what I wrote). Server load goes down, as well as bandwidth. A lot of stuff does not get transmitted outdside and inside. For example: In a huge village, farmer's client (who is inside his palisade) does not receive any info about things outside (only local chat). And around that palisade there could be 20 people working, 10 cattle moving, some wild animals, a lot of objects which get shuffled and moved all the time etc.. People around that palisade dont receive anything from inside palisade, except farmers local chat. He might have 5 cows. Their info is not sent to 20 people etc..

On other note.. I might be wrong, but I got impression that you still understand this as ray tracing operation. It absolutely is not. Its very simple and very practical. Only way to hide from someone is to be inside FULLY ENCLOSED wall. Line of wall which is not enclosed, does not provide any hiding. Following graphic might clear things up a bit: