Stamina and Winded Debuff: Replacing water reserves

[Sevenless]

Effectively, you have 2 "staminas" in game right now. Your current stamina bar, and your reserve stamina in terms of water you're carrying. PvPers continually have the issue of "we need to carry more water at the cost of equipment slots, but rather than being a strategic choice in most cases water just completely eclipses any alternative"

Rework stamina bar into "winded debuff", recovers exactly like normal. Instead of drink, we have "second wind" which refills the stamina bar. This drains our reserve stamina and energy and is in all ways directly equivalent to drinking water.

What we call the "Stamina bar" in this new system is the equivalent of water stored in your inventory/belts in the current system. It's recovered by "resting". Resting is basically the equivalent of refilling your water jugs. Could be done at any water tile, well, barrel of stamina regenerating liquid, cistern of stamina regenrating liquid, and takes a non-zero amount of time that's not too arduous. Maybe max 30 seconds, scaling off how much you're missing. Could be accompanied by a little animation of your hearthling sitting on the ground and drinking from a cup.

Another question is: Should energy burn happen while using second wind, or should it happen during resting?

In short: I'm suggesting we replace water with a system that is functionally identical, but everyone has the same amount of water on them for no equipment or inventory costs. How much energy is drained and how much total water equivalent is "carried" should 100% be determined by the PvPers who are most negatively impacted by it. Literally everyone other than pvpers will benefit from this system (pvpers usually carry absurd amounts of water, so it should be a buff for everyone else), pvpers will get more gear choice.

[Archiplex]

I don’t hate it but something is really funny about effectively having 3 stamina bars.

Somethingsomething soft stamina, hard stamina.

[Sevenless]

I don’t hate it but something is really funny about effectively having 3 stamina bars.

Somethingsomething soft stamina, hard stamina.

Current system is effectively that, one of the bars just happens to be items currently. Moving energy burn from second wind to the resting action might help. I've never really liked the energy bar tbh.

But you're right, soft/hard/max hp already weirds people out about haven. Now we're tripling down on the concept lol.

[Sephiron]

Effectively, you have 2 "staminas" in game right now. Your current stamina bar, and your reserve stamina in terms of water you're carrying. PvPers continually have the issue of "we need to carry more water at the cost of equipment slots, but rather than being a strategic choice in most cases water just completely eclipses any alternative"

Rework stamina bar into "winded debuff", recovers exactly like normal. Instead of drink, we have "second wind" which refills the stamina bar. This drains our reserve stamina and energy and is in all ways directly equivalent to drinking water.

What we call the "Stamina bar" in this new system is the equivalent of water stored in your inventory/belts in the current system. It's recovered by "resting". Resting is basically the equivalent of refilling your water jugs. Could be done at any water tile, well, barrel of stamina regenerating liquid, cistern of stamina regenrating liquid, and takes a non-zero amount of time that's not too arduous. Maybe max 30 seconds, scaling off how much you're missing. Could be accompanied by a little animation of your hearthling sitting on the ground and drinking from a cup.

Another question is: Should energy burn happen while using second wind, or should it happen during resting?

In short: I'm suggesting we replace water with a system that is functionally identical, but everyone has the same amount of water on them for no equipment or inventory costs. How much energy is drained and how much total water equivalent is "carried" should 100% be determined by the PvPers who are most negatively impacted by it. Literally everyone other than pvpers will benefit from this system, pvpers will get more gear choice.

OK, if I'm winded and need to rest near a water barrel, wtf do I do with the 3L of fresh water in my inventory?

[Sevenless]

OK, if I'm winded and need to rest near a water barrel, wtf do I do with the 3L of fresh water in my inventory?

Why are you carrying it in the first place? You wouldn't need it in this scenario. It completely upends *any* need for liquid carrying containers for water.

This would make cups/flasks/jugs obsolete for the stamina system unless they were worked into it somehow.

[Sephiron]

OK, if I'm winded and need to rest near a water barrel, wtf do I do with the 3L of fresh water in my inventory?

Why are you carrying it in the first place? You wouldn't need it in this scenario. It completely upends *any* need for liquid carrying containers for water.

Because, it would make sense, if I'm going to do heavy labor like digging or mining, that I bring water with me. This might do something good for your coveted PVP but I don't want to leave my mines to wait next to a barrel after mining 2 or 3 tiles in order to recover my stamina. I'm just going to drink water. And don't even get me started on how this would ruin terraforming.
And then what, we'll have multiple systems for drinking depending on what liquid it is? I fill waterflask with water. I drink water. I fill waterflask with cider. I drink cider. Or do I have to sit next to a barrel with a little cup in my hand to get the cider buff too?

[DDDsDD999]

If we're removing the need to carry water as an inventory item, don't bother making a second bar that needs to be refilled at a river anyway. Entirely unnecessary complication.

Just replace the "drink" action with a "rest" action that regenerates stamina and slows you down the exact same way, without draining anything.

[Sevenless]

OK, if I'm winded and need to rest near a water barrel, wtf do I do with the 3L of fresh water in my inventory?

Why are you carrying it in the first place? You wouldn't need it in this scenario. It completely upends *any* need for liquid carrying containers for water.

Because, it would make sense, if I'm going to do heavy labor like digging or mining, that I bring water with me. This might do something good for your coveted PVP but I don't want to leave my mines to wait next to a barrel after mining 2 or 3 tiles in order to recover my stamina. I'm just going to drink water. And don't even get me started on how this would ruin terraforming.
Having multiple bars of stamina makes sense. That's kind of how it used to be a long time ago, your energy bar was a sub-bar for stamina.
And then what, we'll have multiple systems for drinking depending on what liquid it is? I fill waterflask with water. I drink water. I fill waterflask with cider. I drink cider. Or do I have to sit next to a barrel with a little cup in my hand to get the cider buff too?

No, you can't drink water to recover stamina. That's no longer a thing, completely removed in this idea.

As to quantity: You seem to misunderstand how much water pvpers tend to carry. They often carry way more than a standard miner would. If everyone is forced to play with the same amount, 10-20L of water is what I'd expect to be the minimum carried. Miner can huff around a barrel like it's nothing, and 10+L of water does a fair bit of mining. Hell, when I'm mining burn through 30 bronze of supports before I need more water and I carry roughly 30L on my miner.

If we're removing the need to carry water as an inventory item, don't bother making a second bar that needs to be refilled at a river anyway. Entirely unnecessary complication.
Just replace the "drink" action with a "rest" action that regenerates stamina and slows you down the exact same way, without draining anything.

Maybe I was too aggressive with the "fuck no one wants this system to be different but they want caps on water needed". I have no issues with this, except I'd probably call it "Catch your breath" since you can keep moving while using it.

This doesn't address the pvpers wanting a cap on chase duration though, which is the main thing the whole "you need to rest at a spot with water" captures. Personally I don't care, both systems work for my playstyle.

[Sephiron]

I Know PVP players love carrying their double bucket entendre with 2 waterflasks on their hip and an inventory full of jugs. I'd say, the issue with PVP isn't drinking, the issue with PVP is needing a fuckton of stamina to run away
Why are people running instead of fighting? Shouldn't that be the issue that should be addressed? In practically all facets of the game except for PVP, drinking is not an issue.

You ever play D&D? Add an attack of opportunity. If 2 players are locked in melee combat, and one player turns around to run, the other one gets a free hit. And the hit will deal grievous damage. Fuck em.

[DDDsDD999]

This doesn't address the pvpers wanting a cap on chase duration though, which is the main thing the whole "you need to rest at a spot with water" captures. Personally I don't care, both systems work for my playstyle.

Chases being determined by "how long has it been since you went to a river and refilled" is shit. I'd rather just keep the current system at that point. Especially if I now couldn't refill with a barrel/well while doing manual labor.