Bow is terrible in PvP and need some more love (or a bug)

[Sevenless]

Ehn, kinda? Yeah people quit around pvp villages, but even areas that are mostly free of pvp influence quit after 2 months. Quality grind feels kind of empty compared to the "sweet we just got our first meatgrinder, sausage time!" dopamine.

Not to detract from pvpers making players quit, I know a newbie who got his place cleaned out and quit because of it. But I'd say pvpers mostly discourage new players from continuing to play while experienced pve players know how to deal with it (even if they actively dislike dealing with it for obvious reasons).

[Reiber]

just, no.
this isnt a pvp vs pve issue, never was. and i wonder how you even brought that up.

generally speaking, if something is bad for players that somewhat understand pvp, its horrible for the people that dont.

also, pvp players have little impact on the longterm survivability of the game, if you quit cause you died and lost 70 statpoints, you wouldnt be here for after lvl 9 when quality progression slows to a crawl, and people just spend stupid amounts of time and effort for 50 quality + resulting in 5 more damage through armour.

legacy had "pve" player oneshotting you through your palisade with a bow, cause of 10k perc and q 400 bows.
early "haven2" had everybody shotgunning entire inventorys full of arrows in seconds.


and from experience. "pve" players are just as likely to be assholes as stat titans, they just dont understand the game aswell, but given enough time, they will build you in with villageclaims, or brickwalls, or whatever.

never missunderstand the inability of somebody to hurt you for peacefull intentions.

[Archiplex]

In w8 when I had an alt with like 50mm, i knocked out three people singlehandedly in a raid where 40 enemies were against us. Each of them got downed in a single hit dealing 400+ damage that entirely bypassed the combat system. I was surrounded by 8+ enemies each with significantly better stats and pvp knowledge than me. While I was getting attacked, I could literally aim and spam defenses and still hurt the dude who eventually cleaved me for 1k+ damage.

Archery obviously was busted in pvp for a long time, and should never have been a viable thing to utilize in pvp for damage. Ever since then it's been nerfed world by world until the state it's been in - now you can't move and aim, you get a huge debuff in damage against people adjacent to you, you actually need to aim rather than wait for a bar to charge up, and the damage is pitiful. But that's okay. Metal arrows have a fairly nasty 20% damage pen and can deal a pretty decent amount of damage through armor - enough that chipping people is possible; Sure, none of this is wounds so it directly makes it harder to kill a player, but I think that's a good thing.

I think bows should have a PLACE in pvp, but it should not at all be damage. IMHO, bows and other projectiles could have a really cool spot in being a tool that can be used to slow down players that are hit as they run away - if a projectile impacts someone, it could slow them down for a split second - enough to make up for the time you spent aiming and firing, and allowing others to catch up better - i especially like this because doing this makes it harder to kill an enemy (shp dmg, no hhp). Slow should probably scale off of the damage dealt compared with the enemy's con or something to make it so people don't utilize low quality stuff for the slow. But never, ever, should archery damage be comparable to melee.

[it-Tato]

Yo,

If the bow and archery in general was ever ment to be viable for PvP,

thats the flaw. it isnt.
every time archery was in any way viable, or even niche usable. people complained, especially the people that spend thousands of hours intoo the game and have jorbtard in their dms.

jorbtard do struggle with ballancing 2 weapons against each other, but they realized, that any more will just make the problem worse, and 2 different systems even more so, thats why hyrdmans and frydmans swords are only ever crafted for creedos, or 12 months intoo an 16 month world where 2/3th of the playerbase has quit.

and thats why archery isnt allowed to be used,

hell, bows where already only usable in naval combat, so they dissallowed you to shoot from crewseats,

if you go out, and make a video shooting somebody from a oxcart you might actually result in wagons getting the same treatment.


i guess it isnt even jorbtard, being against ranged in pvp. they just dont want to deal with the entire pvp community spampinging them, and rather dont have to bother, so if your findings would have resulted in you finding a niche for bows it would have been nerfed.

currently, the only place bows have, is for getting through hunter/strider, wich nobody would pick up, lest required, cause 4/5 benefits from both creedos are purely for ranged combat.

Thanks for your answer, it kinda explains the fact that bows are sort of cosmetic items right now.

It also made me realized that this game has absolutely weird scope. World starts, ppl want to enjoy it, there is a huge influx of hermits and PvErs and small "pvp community" that spreads the terror and bullies ppl who don't want to pvp at all. Then, after a month or two, 75% of PvE players quit, coz they have enough of being randomly ganked/sieged by some small pp no lifers. And then, when the PvErs are gone, this "pvp community" realizes that there is no players on the server to play with (such a surprise!) and then they quit, leaving the servers almost empty.
And Jorbtar just watches all of this for years and doesn't seem to give a damn about the situation.

And PvP flagging, like in other pvpve games could solve most of those issues Not balancing of course, but the pvp issues.

I really don't think I'd be playing this game if the scariest part of it was not paying attention and walking into a moose/bear/wolves or dcing while swimming. I think a major part of people quitting is not pvp players necessarily but bullshit mechanics and lack of qol that other somewhat similarish games provide. And lets be real if people want a full pve farmville experience there are just better games out there. The fun in this game is how much effort you put in and how you can get a ton of that time stripped from you by either not knowing something or being goofy. The fun is "I will do better next time." for me at least.

[Reiber]

also. there currently is def a place for archery in pvp. but 90 % of players never interact with it.
and that would be mass pvp that isnt objective bound.
if both partys just dick around scared to engage, archers put up decent pressure. acting a bit like artillery in rts games.

[Sephiron]

That's kinda what people have been saying about stats in general, your equipment quality matters significantly more than anything else. However, to make a high quality bow/arrows it actually factors in your MM skill in the crafting recipe so raising it is still important.

[MightySheep]

all I know is some noob shot me with a bow in a big pvp situation earlier this world and I had a fat AC full steel etc and he did 56 dmg to me through that, which I dont think is bad

granted that type of zerg pvp is the only time its good

[Reiber]

all I know is some noob shot me with a bow in a big pvp situation earlier this world and I had a fat AC full steel etc and he did 56 dmg to me through that, which I dont think is bad

meh. depends.

people where running around with 800 hhp before winter,
50 soft hp, also gets regened compleatly, over the course of an longer fight,
and if that was a rangers bow, wich i assume due to the damage through steel, that is 5? seconds of standing around mid pvp,

also your client prop has that nifty feature where it shows you the firing archs of enemys with bows, so that arrow is very much dodgeable, and needs to be predicted 5 seconds in advance.


if you just fire intoo an big group of people, and your allies dont suicide infront of your shots, you can deal quite a bit of damage, and annoy people.
but unless you manage to single out somebody, and are litterally running god, you just plink a few people for about 5% hp each once.

wich isnt nothing do mind, but its barely something that will have any effect.

unless swarmfactions start making firingsquads, and manage to coordinate their targeting.