Something should be done about fast travel ted talk

[Dawidio123]

Okay, i have no clear idea of what should be done but i want to at least explore the whole issue. Welcome to my ted talk.
There are some posts about safe-palis being bad which i agree with to a certain extent, same as snekkjas not being great for pvp as they are basically a mobile safe-pali unless the other side has a bunch of their own nearby.

You know what also sucks for pvp and ganking? Fast travel.
And before you screeech let me elaborate. Conflicts in haven as it stands are fully global. You attack one person from a group and their whole group pulls up in less than 5 minutes (maybe except like the week 1-2 when travel weariness is an issue). If it's under their village it's like yeah, ofc they gonna pull up why wouldn't they, rarely if ever do group limits their numbers for the sake of a tougher fight. But that shouldn't be the case on the other side of the world, there should be some isolation in combat, having basically both groups have to fully port for every engagement makes it a pure numbers game and every fight is basically at the same odds other than people missing a fight and that's kinda boring no? I feel like open world pvp encounters should be chaotic af, a group of 2-3 can never gank 1 person from a bigger group out in the open (ofc exceptions apply like the bee dungeon funny or timezone metagaming) bcs their whole group will just pull up, and unless you literally catch someone with their pants down doing smth like naked swim (retard) you probably won't be able to catch up and KO them before the reinforcements arrive if they are even semi-competent at running.

This also extends to small group conflicts, any conflict between 2 hermit-ish groups usually ends the moment one of the groups reaches out to a bigger group to help them out, and since traveling there costs nothing they are happy to help as they'll probably get paid on top of getting free loot from some shitters. I wonder if this would be just as common if going there actually took some whirlpool traveling (arguably whirlpools should be 1 to 1 so you cannot keep going into the same whirlpool until you get wherever you want) or actually sailing there with a knarr. Hermits should be allowed to beat each other with a stick for a 10ql carrot without the world police ruining their fun.

On the other hand, nobody believes the myth of a traveling merchant, so fast travel is actually good (arguably hard to achieve as a hermit) to make markets more accessible.
So the whole issue is a bit complex to solve, because a lot of things that nerf it for the pvp aspect also will nerf it for trade (which is what concerns 99% of the playerbase honestly).

I'm gonna just throw some ideas out there none of which are really thought through to a major extent especially not meant to all be implemented:
-Make some of the thingwalls a Great Thingwall (a few per continent, idk 4-5?), a great thingwall has some subservient thingwalls and can be used to teleport to all of them (not the other great thingwalls). Any thingwall can be used to teleport to a charter (or just bring back porticos and fuck that). This post is not about kingdoms but i was also thinking that only great thingwalls could be conquered so there is a lot less space for kingdoms and each thingwall fight is REALLY impactful. Ofc that would make settling near one of these VERY advantageous but i don't see that as a problem tbh, there aren't that many big groups to compete for those. The whole idea basically breaks when we consider just making charters near each great thingwall, which is probably quite achievable and there isn't really any way to limit charter spam other than increasing travel cost or making maintenance a lot higher (and both of these just suck), so maybe if someone is actually willing to setup a whole network of these they should be allowed to enjoy it idk.

-Make thingwalls travel cost higher, I assume travel weariness is exponential based on distance (didn't test correct me if i'm wrong, can be tested by placing charter next to a thingwall and testing both a thingwall and charter tp). Hence many short quick travels with thingwalls cost less than one big jump with charter. Jumping around the world with charters not only requires you to set them up but is also a lot more expensive travel weariness wise. Arguably hermits travel mostly to charters (other than the quite frequent case of "oh its too costly i need to port with thingwalls, oh i dont have thingwalls sorry ill come closer with a boat") so that wouldn't hurt trade nearly as much. (once again charter spam breaks it)

-Allow kingdoms to close their borders (make hnh great again or w/e) disallowing people from porting in from outside using charters or thingwalls, only inside travel. Yeah doesn't matter for huge realms, also doesn't matter for the first 5+ (a big + at current challenge rate lol) weeks of the world. But would allow for some cool scenarios like only extending your realm around your own continent so you can close the travel to it from outisde, forcing sailing or whirlpools to get to it (fucking markets ofc but that's up to the kingdom owner who is also probably a market owner, but maybe some cool stuff like a trade free zone would be setup with another kingdom). Would make conquering one of the provinces on that continent very valuable for travel but also would be challenging due to the travel requirement. Might make kingdoms a bit more stable and focused around natural borders which sounds cool imo. The kingdom system requires a lot more changes to be cool tbh but that's above the scope of this topic.

-Snail is gonna screech about this one, I don't think you should be able to carry a ready to go snekkja in your pockets, make it dry for at least like 20-40 minutes or smth, you can still go and build a snekkja in advance wherever you want and it'll be ready for later but you cannot just build it wherever you want the instant you port there. I'm sorry but i just think setting up infrastructure should be incentivized so if you want a snekkja whenever you go to X continent you better setup a port there or fuck with whirlpools.

-Whirlpools should be 1 to 1, currently you can keep going into the same whirlpool and repairing your ship to basically get to any other whirlpool (not accounting for smaller loops in the set, it's likely you can get close enough to wherever you want anyways). What should be the case is that whirlpools always lead to the other exit making them still pretty good for fast traveling huge distances, just not basically a "get wherever you want now" card. Ofc they can still change overtime, maybe allow kingdoms to stabilize them or smth (costing auth overtime) if they want a consistent teleport between two points they own.

yap yap yap yap yap yap yap

[boshaw]

*screeching snail sounds in the distance*

[SpacePig]

teleport from tingwalls only to charter, with a cooldown of 8 IRL hours.
On the territory two screens from the tingwall you can not pull the claim personal or village.

[Thuzzy]

The kingdom border thing sounds cool, not sure how it would play out tho.
+1 for the Whirlpools & Snekkja suggestions.

One change I would really like to see is not allowing claims near TWs.

[animary]

"Allow kingdoms to close their borders"

Thus effectively blocking markets from the majority of players, except those interested in fighting. Most of your suggestions are predicated on more fighting, dismissive of the players who hate the PvP aspect of the game.

"One change I would really like to see is not allowing claims near TWs."

I have long advocated this. In the last world someone had placed claims over two thingwalls north of me, you could travel to either and walk off the claim, but could not then return to the thingwall. I propose a certain radius around each thingwall which would act as a claim, you could not build on it, could not claim within a certain distance of it, and the thingwall would act as a visitor gate so you would be safe within that radius.

[SnuggleSnail]

Most of this has been tried before, and I think if you were around for it you would think what we have now is the lesser of the evils by far. Right now, 95% of the faction level conflict started by like, me, felix, mightysheep, and idk maybe berthadin. It's a very time consuming, low reward job. You can very easily spend like 6 hours trying to make something happen, only for nothing to happen - even early world. Late world you can spend 16h/day for a week trying to make something happen only for nothing to happen. Then, when all of your effort pays off both squads port in and you have the fun fight, which everybody wants.

What happens when your squad can't port in? Well, the enemy is going to have like 5, 10, 15, or whatever guys at their village - so you need to bring 5, 10, 15 or whatever guys. Do you have any idea how hard it is to convince 10 people to jump in knarrs, sail across the ocean for 2 hours, then sit outside somebody's village for 3 hours trying to bait a fight when they know full well 90% of the time nothing is going to happen, and 90% of the time when something does happen they will just run into a safepali and make fun of you for wasting your time. It happens like 3 times per world, and it's always insanely disappointing. Hell, say you KO 5 people - an unrealistically good outcome. You spent, like, 50 manhours to do that. You got 5 gear sets and gave some wounds. How many man hours does it take to replace 5 gear set and heal some wounds? A LOT fucking less than 50 hours. It's like winning the lottery but the payout is somehow less than the price of the ticket. This is exactly what it was like world 11, and there were, like, 3 fights all world.

Moreover, practically all of the ideas I see floated for how to resolve this "problem" can be overcome by throwing autism at the situation. Do you really want one side to have the ability to always have backup, but the other not, because it requires some monumental setup to create the teleportation network? In ye olden days when you couldn't teleport with outlaw, we made networks of docks with multiple knarrs attached to them, and waypoint bots to bring them back to our willig after use. In world 12 I made, easily, 30 or 40 charterstone villages and maintained them all world. Are you going to do that? Do you expect somebody from your faction to do that for you? Do you expect the other faction to not do that? All your suggestion would rly do in reality is make playing the game take a lot more work to setup, and make everything a lot less interesting because nothing will ever happen.

Also, because every discussion like this devolves hermits with a huge loss aversion bias screeching about anything they think will make them safer - teleportion doesn't matter for hermit ganking. Even with the teleportation options we have now 99% of hermit killing is done by hopping on a snekkja and sailing in a direction. The biggest effect no teleporting would have on hermit ganking is hermit slayers would be more aggressive as there's EVEN LESS chance somebody real will try to gank them back.

tl;dr you're describing world 11 and everybody hated it

[SpacePig]

....

Well, it's because of your global banditry all over the map that sieges are becoming more and more difficult every year. Because you and people like you crushed small villages, and people from these villages howled, because you crawl over huge territories and it's impossible to catch you and take revenge and cause you any harm, for ordinary players. These siege rules are constantly becoming more complicated only because of your hunt for the weak.
You constantly whine that it has become so difficult to kill or besiege someone, but you are the main reason that this is happening, it is because of you that these rules are being introduced so that you cannot poison the lives of a large number of people with your cowardly playstyle.
Ultimately, it is much easier and more practical to make life in the game boring and unbearable for people like you. There are only 40-60 of you. And in return, we will receive a normal stable online of 800+ players, and not 150, which is what your playstyle leads to. Why should you feel good - if it makes everyone else feel worse.

[Dawidio123]

yap

okay and? Yes I don't think you would setup those kinds of networks, especially not on 6 month worlds lmao.

[maze]

Its funny; most hermits and people who don't want to raid and fight, the like 70 or 80% of our current player base, Tend to avoid thingwalls and whirlpools like the pledge because they know some pvper is sitting out there with a single alt watching teleporting.
I find it really funny that you claim to wait 5 to 6 hours to setup things yet all it really takes in one of you to find someone then a discord to call the rest; the amount of times my own group had to deal with people this world was mind blowing and that's over our 5 villages.

I remember a single day that Mighty was ping fking with people on the north island then 20 mins later fking with people on the center island then 40 mins after that fking around in my area. The fighting is relentless and the players who don't want teleport have no option to shut it down; we always end up seeing the same players no matter how much work we put into isolating ourselves.

We talked to loftar about the Kingdoms and teleporting thing; we asked to the reverse. Thingwalls dont allow teleporting unless a kingdom owns them and only if the kingdom has it turned on; But we also want a step more where local villages compete to be the local head of the region making a dutchy of sorts, and those villages can control those settings before a kingdom becomes a thing.

100% agree on drying time on Snekkja and knarr, even I've used this trick to get around and drop alts around the world for mapping. It's a little busted.

Just like thingwalls I hate whirlpools. I tracked them over time when they spawned around me. Loftar told me just don't settle near them. Kinda hard when a whirlpool opens up a month later after settling in the spot.
We proposed changes to the whirlpool system as they're a mass teleport, super travel method with easily mapped network; it ruins the whole point of a vast world when you can teleport to anywhere in the world instantly with no cost.
Somebody going to claim "blah blah they can't be mapped easy", We've already proved how easy it was to loftar, he agree'd it was to easy.

[SnuggleSnail]

Yes I don't think you would setup those kinds of networks, especially not on 6 month worlds lmao.

Xir, there is a charter willig 10 minimaps away from your willig, and all it does is reduce response time by ~60 seconds. Its been there since ~6 weeks into the world. You're insane if you think there would not be faction charter networks (again, because it happened before) if thingwalls were nerfed.