Rl’yeh is sinking, hasn’t reached the bottom yet

[algeralith]

Let us focus on the core mechanic which caused the issue.
The fact that visitor debuff is not gained upon hearthing.

This was the factor that facilitated the raid. All we needed was
this one character in order to kill them, and raid the village.

The minehole itself is a secondary issue, which itself is just a
cheesy bit of mechanics.

Now back to the first issue, how do you handle something like this?
Even if we spawned with a visitor debuff (which we did not), then
we just had to walk outside the open gate and hearth.

This now begs to question on why that character would not get visitor.
For this, you have to consider how you would determine that a character
would get visitor when hearthing. Would you base it upon permissions given
upon the land?

In which case, what permissions? Tresspassing? Theft? Vandal?
There is really no good way to decide this, since people use varying levels of permissions
for different situations.

Had they just not left their gates opened, nor allowed random spawning, they would have been fine.
Hell, building a fence around it would have prevented us from walking in and seeing the secret.

This is not a bug. We did not try to actively glitch out a mechanic. The mechanic was just used in an
unattended way. It can hardly be compared to something like wall jumping.

[VDZ]

People treat the visitor buff as a false security when in reality it should just be a recruitment buffer for security.

Bullshit. The intention of the visitor debuff was to allow people into your base without risk of them committing crimes.

theoretically, we believe that this means that you should more or less be able to leave your gates open to strangers, as said strangers should be unable to commit crimes inside your settlement.

(Source)

Ideally, Jorb wants it to go even further, allowing such things as open cities:

As some of you may know we are currently toying with several ideas with an aim toward improving the social dynamics of the game, making larger civilizations and, ideally, open cities, possible.

(Source)

To enter in a way that would normally give you a visitor debuff, circumvent the debuff and commit crimes is, without question, against the intention of the mechanic. When this circumvention is purely of technical nature, it is bug abuse.

As a member of Rl'yeh, I certainly don't think that these people are deserving of a nuke.

As a trader who relies on the visitor debuff, I think these people need to be punished harshly. Perhaps not a nuke, but at least kill a couple characters involved in the raid. People should not be allowed to get away with exploiting bugs in the visitor system to wreak havoc in an area that is otherwise properly protected.

[MightySheep]

Amusing that Rl'yeh always has to take the fall for the devs to change something

Yep this will be the 3rd time to lose our base to something ridiculously only to have the devs patch it 1 update later.

Though I suppose we're lucky that willy potter people revealed their bug abuse trick on a ghost town.

I still dont really understand what they did but I find it funny that this sort of thing happens with such frequency. How do the devs even manage to fail this hard, it's like youre 10x more likely to lose your village/characters to bugs/faulty mechanics than anything else in this game.

To people saying "shouldnt have left your gate open", the whole point of visitor debuff is to be allowed to leave your gate open. I did protest the idea at first, knowing this game is full of flaws, but I guess someone decided we should trust the devs on this one I know, funny right?

Luckily though I think the only thing of value we had left there is horses and gold, the gold was probably a mistake thanks to kila storing it in his leanto

[ven]

As a trader who relies on the visitor debuff, I think these people need to be punished harshy.

I think the way the devs decide to handle this will be a statement of the direction we should expect the game to take. Should we even care about trade and social interaction?

[ArvinJA]

Visitor debuff wasn't even exploited, a char spawned at the charterstone, which was set to "allowed" for some reason, the rest is irrelevant.

Please tell me where the abuse was

[MrBunzy]

Lol @ people calling for nuke. These clowns left an active, unprotected charter stone in the middle of their village where anyone had access to use and spawn on it, and then expect not to get griefed? Devs even included an entire mechanic to prevent this with preventing spawning off a charter stone. This has nothing to do with wall-jumping or visitor debuff, unless you think going up a minehole into their village is a malicious bug we should have reported?? Anyway, was a boring raid and dissapointing loot, cry moar pls.

[shadowchris]

Wall jumping was just an unintended mechanic, plz restore Core.

It's funny since if DIS did this I'm sure everyone would be begging for a nuke again.

I don't think it was intended that palisades wouldn't have time to soak until people had vandal this world, either. Still, Dis did do that this world, no nuke.

I'm failing to see the correlation. Are you really saying jorb should nuke Dis because they miscalculated the time it would take for someone to have vandalism? We have fucking dragonflies and mirkwood in this game, it's not impossible to get that skill in that short timeframe

[VDZ]

Lack of ethics? Are you retarded? Do you think it's unethical to raid someone? Unlike in real life, online you can choose which game you play. If you want to farm without a possibility of getting raided, you can choose any game without PvP.

You step outside of the realm of in-game ethics into real-world ethics when you start playing outside of the game's rules. Killing a player in-game is fair, as is destroying their entire base. But using an exploit (a meta-element, not a genuine game rule) to destroy someone's progress is clearly unethical.

Had they just not left their gates opened, nor allowed random spawning, they would have been fine.
Hell, building a fence around it would have prevented us from walking in and seeing the secret.

The problem here is that the point of the visitor system was that you could leave your gates opened, allow random spawning and allow other ways of entering your base and you would still be safe. A technical loophole was found in this system to disable this protection. It was not their fault that they relied on a system intended to be relied upon.

[ArvinJA]

The problem here is that the point of the visitor system was that you could leave your gates opened, allow random spawning and allow other ways of entering your base and you would still be safe. A technical loophole was found in this system to disable this protection. It was not their fault that they relied on a system intended to be relied upon.

Wait, visitor is irrelevant in this case. Seeing what a charterstone name is is intended behavior. If you don't want people to spawn in your village, turn that off.

[rye130]

This is not a bug. We did not try to actively glitch out a mechanic. The mechanic was just used in an
unattended way. It can hardly be compared to something like wall jumping.

It was clearly an unintended use of the mechanic, used destructively without reporting it or asking if it was okay first. Whether or not that is nuke worthy is not quite as black or white.

As far as claims that stuff like this shouldn't be punished because the bugs wouldn't be found as often and fixed. That's utter bullshit. Plenty of bug-jumps/exploits have been found and reported and fixed without most of the community knowing they ever existed. The motivation behind reporting it is that you protect yourself from having someone use that abuse against you. Dis got nuked for jumping last world, but that doesn't convince me that they wouldn't do the same thing again, given a good opportunity. And even if not Dis, there are probably plenty of groups that given the right set of circumstances would abuse a nuke-worthy bug to destroy an enemy.