This community is exactly why P2P was implemented.

[burgingham]

bro that line of thinking is so flawed it hurts, I said cosmetic cash shop, not buying fucking game impacting items, hats and house hold cosmetics, not swords and metals, you're not bidding for items, your buying something to make you look different, you're buying something to support the developers, which was your main land argument a little while ago.

If you enjoy people having unfair advantages in a game then ok so be it. I can probably not convince you otherwise.

Cosmetic items impact a game just as much once they are tradable.

Non tradable ones would have to be permanent in a permadeath game. That might work but is still maybe not the best revenue model for a small game.

But thanks for the thinly veiled insult. Proves my point who is argueing for which side.

[Bobustouchdown]

a video game isn't going to drive you to work

A video game wont get you laid either. How ever it is used for pleasure, a car can be used for pleasure as well.

Would it have been nice to know up front about the process going into it? Yep

The old saying goes it is easier to ask for forgiveness than it is for premission. So yea, I can understand why they did it this way. They saved all the piss and moaning from before to after, and let those that play the game after figure out if it is worth it.

an apple is a fruit and an orange is a fruit, therefore we can only come to the logical conclusion that an apple is an orange.
That is literally what you just said to me when you said if a car can be used for pleasure therefore it has the same social and physical impact on your life as a video game does.

[burgingham]

Just because an apple is not an orange does not mean they do not share similarities. Without comparison you cannot know anything.

[RedKGB]

an apple is a fruit and an orange is a fruit, therefore we can only come to the logical conclusion that an apple is an orange.
That is literally what you just said to me when you said if a car can be used for pleasure therefore it has the same social and physical impact on your life as a video game does.

Yea, think that if you want. Not what I said, but if it helps you sleep better at night thinking you beat me with your failed logic, so be it, you win.

Like I said, people are going to piss and moan. They dont get to play for free like they use to.

Wonder why so many people feel butt hurt over two guys not wanting to work for free anymore?

[DeathToSuperman]

You completely skipped over my reasoning for why a monthly payment plan is the hitler is the gaming world, a cosmetic item shop would have been a thousand times better than paying monthly for actually being able to play the game, that way people could and would still support the game, give the developers money and get something back for it.

I'll chalk this one up to selective reading, I won't tell you how to spend your money, but I will tell you I think its ludicrous that you're willing to spend hundreds of dollars over the course of a few years just to play a video game.

Except monthly payment is the ONLY way to keep a game fair. The new buy items in shop models that are common these days are an abomination that do not reward gameplay but just the ones paying more. I can just go to an auction house if I want that and bid for a painting or something.

This is not only a false dichotomy, but a greedy lie. You insist what J&L are selling is even worth that much money, when we have no guarantee whatsoever about the quality of the game. What's to stop them from taking the money and running after a few months? Jorb has already said if the community here died, he wouldn't have lost much. Do you think when a developer says that, we are assured that the quality of the game will be fine?

[Fharlanghn]

Do you think when a developer says that, we are assured that the quality of the game will be fine?

To be fair, the developers don't contribute much to the quality of the game. The community is what does it.

As for Jorb's blasé affectation, you now know why so many games have a community manager rather than a direct line to the developers themselves. There's something offputting about the personality of a person who can and will create something like this.

[DeathToSuperman]

Do you think when a developer says that, we are assured that the quality of the game will be fine?

To be fair, the developers don't contribute much to the quality of the game. The community is what does it.

As for Jorb's blasé affectation, you now know why so many games have a community manager rather than a direct line to the developers themselves. There's something offputting about the personality of a person who can and will create something like this.

In a sense, you're right, but nonetheless, the developer is the one who manages his product and sells it to the community.
Again, I see no assurance that J&L won't just drop support or drop the ball on updates despite the premium they ask for.

[Fharlanghn]

In a sense, you're right, but nonetheless, the developer is the one who manages his product and sells it to the community.
Again, I see no assurance that J&L won't just drop support or drop the ball on updates despite the premium they ask for.

Make no mistake, I'm not trying to sell you on this. It threw me for a loop to find that they were going from "Hobbyists" to "Paid developers" as much I'm willing to bet it did you. I've just seen a fair number of F2P and alpha games go to the P2P model, and right now, they're riding that fine line between the patterns I observed for successful attempts and total failure.

I sincerely doubt their attitudes will change now that money has entered the equation, though I thought that they would never again resurrect characters after that business with the jeweller character that was taken for a swim in Sodom, yet here we are.

Hope things turn out well. Not confident they will, but God I hope.

[Denkar]

In a sense, you're right, but nonetheless, the developer is the one who manages his product and sells it to the community.
Again, I see no assurance that J&L won't just drop support or drop the ball on updates despite the premium they ask for.

It threw me for a loop to find that they were going from "Hobbyists" to "Paid developers" as much I'm willing to bet it did you.

Then you must've been away for quite a long time considering this happened years ago when they released Salem

[DeathToSuperman]

In a sense, you're right, but nonetheless, the developer is the one who manages his product and sells it to the community.
Again, I see no assurance that J&L won't just drop support or drop the ball on updates despite the premium they ask for.

Make no mistake, I'm not trying to sell you on this. It threw me for a loop to find that they were going from "Hobbyists" to "Paid developers" as much I'm willing to bet it did you. I've just seen a fair number of F2P and alpha games go to the P2P model, and right now, they're riding that fine line between the patterns I observed for successful attempts and total failure.

I sincerely doubt their attitudes will change now that money has entered the equation, though I thought that they would never again resurrect characters after that business with the jeweller character that was taken for a swim in Sodom, yet here we are.

Hope things turn out well. Not confident they will, but God I hope.

This is like pre-alpha world one testing stuff, man. Everything else aside, there needs to be a big emergency update and a world reset coming soon.