Who Are You Voting For?

[Orcling]

Sanders won that debate so hard!

Even a toddler can win a debate against hillary at this point.
Its like you're praising your cat for shitting all over your carpet.

[Jalpha]

All this in mind, who could deny that THE problem with American culture is that we're money-aholics?

I can't help but blame money as well. It really took off during the '50s when the fear of overproduction gave birth to a culture saturated in advertising. The survival of capitalism literally depends upon the cycling of money and then the global reserve banks threw inflation on top. People are effectively organic robots who run a collection of programs in their brains which have been imposed upon them by parenting and society at large. We are raised to be consumers, it's an essential part of the system which sustains us. It's going to collapse, that's inevitable, and the longer we put it off the worse it will be.

But nothing will change until it has to, for a plethora of reasons. I'm sure we will survive when the time comes but so much will be lost in that transition.

[Patchouli_Knowledge]

If you've ever applied for university or a government loan you would know how many hoops and unwritten things you need to jump through and figure out just to get the ball rolling

If you don't have the mental capacity or time to wade through legal forms and to call around and ask questions then you are just sort of fucked

This! At least in this part of the country, I get ping ponged over different part of the department managing and bureaucracy that my head starts to hurt just from the impact rather than the procedure. I one time had a situation where both department told me to go to each other. I doesn't help that legal issues aren't my strong point. The worst part is that it is by no means guarantee that you will even be qualified for what you are applying for, making all of that effort be for naught.

[GenghisKhan44]

All this in mind, who could deny that THE problem with American culture is that we're money-aholics?

I can't help but blame money as well. It really took off during the '50s when the fear of overproduction gave birth to a culture saturated in advertising. The survival of capitalism literally depends upon the cycling of money and then the global reserve banks threw inflation on top. People are effectively organic robots who run a collection of programs in their brains which have been imposed upon them by parenting and society at large. We are raised to be consumers, it's an essential part of the system which sustains us. It's going to collapse, that's inevitable, and the longer we put it off the worse it will be.

But nothing will change until it has to, for a plethora of reasons. I'm sure we will survive when the time comes but so much will be lost in that transition.

On the contrary, it's quite possible to fight it - with one's own life. One person by himself might not make much of a difference. But you don't do it to make a difference. You do it because it is right to fight it. And one person can fight it, with relative ease. The punchline is basically to make what you have last as long as you can, and support people who can't support you - at least not fiscally.

Ysh and I were talking about frugality earlier. I think more people are slowly coming to realise the need for it. Shops like ALDI's, thrift stores like Goodwill, they exist for a reason. And ALDI is a foreign company, and it's growing. Learning to sew and patch up old clothes - as well as our couch, and even my springboard! - has saved me a lot of grief and money. Instead of hiring a plumber out of convenience, figure out how to do it yourself. The Internet has been invaluable in teaching me how to do things I would not otherwise do - because I lack the skills. And it's amazing what a hammer and nails and some duct tape can fix. It's amazing what problems you can solve by doing a little Google searching for an inexpensive solution.

Of course, you can't have "nice things". A $600 phone is right out. A $2400 gaming monster is a laughable waste of money. No keeping up with the Joneses. And maybe that feels like a lot to ask. And maybe it is. But if you think it's worth the trouble to live a financially sustainable life, to be able to make things last longer, to learn how not to waste money in case you ever lose access to said money - it's worth practising, for years, until the day you die.

Of course, that last part - giving to others who can't give back to you financially - that's the hardest part. For many reasons. As much as we spend on useless crap, we have a hard time giving our money to someone else, saying to ourselves, "But I might need that", or "he's a bum who'll spend it on booze", or somesuchthing. It is better to give your time and love to others. But at least giving your money to someone else, with no expectation of making it back, can free you from your fear of losing it. It can free you from selfishness.

Although it is hardly pressed upon us, it is a moral duty for a Catholic to pay tithe, if it can be afforded. Tithe is 10% of your income. On my old job of $10/hr fulltime, that would be $40/week. Even if you are not a Catholic, what good could you do if you gave $40 a week for the betterment of others? I never really thought about it; I was just happy to be able to give $10 a week for once. Many Catholics do not even give $5, and grudgingly.

Ah! But what good could be done, if all men were even of the mindset that God only asks us to give one-tenth of our wealth for others, and the other nine-tenths can be ours! What good we could do if we gave even 5% to charities, to our poorer brothers and sisters, and never sought a penny of it back. It would help them, and it would lighten our souls that, finally, we were doing good in the world.

[Jalpha]

On the contrary, it's quite possible to fight it - with one's own life. One person by himself might not make much of a difference. But you don't do it to make a difference. You do it because it is right to fight it. And one person can fight it, with relative ease. The punchline is basically to make what you have last as long as you can, and support people who can't support you - at least not fiscally.

This is pretty much the rule I live my life by. Anything I disapprove of I avoid participating in. Things like loans in particular. In closing those doors it's interesting to find which others open in their place, and with an open mind there are a lot of options to consider.

I'm honestly not sure about the experiences others have had but I find I save more money shopping for specials than I do frequenting stores like ALDI, so while I know they are a very efficient business I'm suspicious of just how much of the savings are passed on to the consumer. I'd also much rather buy fresh produce from a locally owned business than support a global chain, not just on principle though, they have to be selling nice food.

The way I see life, experiences count for a lot. I'd rather have the experience of working out how to fix my own car than pay someone else to fix it. DIY stuff has always been fun to me, even things like growing my own vegetables. People who don't feel that way confuse me. It's almost as though a lot of people want to distance themselves from our heritage as a part of the environment. Kind of like an attempt to ascend into the television screen or a wish to seem like a noble or royalty.

I also have a policy of not giving money to people I don't know who ask for it. I'll give money to someone who is doing something, a busker for example always. At least they are doing something productive, adding something to the world instead of just being parasitic. The parasitic ones need more than money, they need actual assistance and I'll often offer what I can to assist them but usually it quickly becomes quite clear that they do just want spare change for a can of spraypaint to sniff or some beer.

I'd like to make a difference, someday if I do well it would be nice to effect some small element of change from the bottom of society. In the end though the entirety of our lives is really just us as the universe experiencing itself and nothing really matters at all.

[GenghisKhan44]

I like you, Jalpha, and I generally like your thinking, too.

On the contrary, it's quite possible to fight it - with one's own life. One person by himself might not make much of a difference. But you don't do it to make a difference. You do it because it is right to fight it. And one person can fight it, with relative ease. The punchline is basically to make what you have last as long as you can, and support people who can't support you - at least not fiscally.

This is pretty much the rule I live my life by. Anything I disapprove of I avoid participating in. Things like loans in particular. In closing those doors it's interesting to find which others open in their place, and with an open mind there are a lot of options to consider.

Do you use credit cards? Not, of course, for frivolities, but to build your credit rating? I'm considering using a credit card for such a purpose; credit ratings can be useful, so I hear.

I'm honestly not sure about the experiences others have had but I find I save more money shopping for specials than I do frequenting stores like ALDI, so while I know they are a very efficient business I'm suspicious of just how much of the savings are passed on to the consumer. I'd also much rather buy fresh produce from a locally owned business than support a global chain, not just on principle though, they have to be selling nice food.

I don't buy as much local stuff, on account of being poor and not industrious enough to bike to the nearest farmer's market. But you are right, it is good to do so, on principle and for quality. Both my ecology teacher and my "Catholic social teachings" teacher praised doing business with local companies rather than international ones. It's obviously better for the environment, the pocketbook (transport is costly), and for the workers who make the things we buy. And I never buy produce from an ALDI's or a Walmart (though, for the price, I will buy other things) because it is usually poor quality.

Kind of like an attempt to ascend into the television screen or a wish to seem like a noble or royalty.

I agree. It seems like we've become a society of the indulgent. I think John Chrysostom describes our society perfectly:

Are not the bodies vigorous of those who live thus moderately (for do not tell me of that which rarely happens, although some may be weak from some other circumstance, but form your judgment from those instances which are of constant occurrence), I say are they not vigorous, and their senses clear, fulfilling their proper function with much ease? Whereas the bodies of the others are flaccid and softer than wax, and beset with a crowd of maladies?

And much else besides. What people have considered the high life, the desirable, for probably freaking ever, is terribly unhappy.

I also have a policy of not giving money to people I don't know who ask for it. I'll give money to someone who is doing something, a busker for example always. At least they are doing something productive, adding something to the world instead of just being parasitic. The parasitic ones need more than money, they need actual assistance and I'll often offer what I can to assist them but usually it quickly becomes quite clear that they do just want spare change for a can of spraypaint to sniff or some beer.

I totally get that.
I try to do one better. I don't wait for them to beg. I say "hello" to them. I approach them, and talk to them, if they're willing. At our church, there are some regulars from the street who come on Sunday. We greet them. We treat them like people and friends. After Mass, we spend time with them and talk with them, like we would with anyone else. They eat with us. And when we drink, we will pour them a small glass, if they ask.

Recently, I have come to the conclusion that this is how Our Lord treated every sinner - like His Own. The ones who sniff glue and drink gin are just as much sinners as we are. And we are just as much loved by God as they are.
In modern terms, a junkie is not just a junkie. A wino is not merely a wino. Ask them about how they came here, where they're from, their families, what reasons brought them here, what dreams they have, what they did for a living. You have answers to those questions. So do they. Experiencing that for yourself is always heartwarming. The same applies for anyone - Republicans, Democrats, Green Party, Tea Party, LGBT, fundamentalists, big government, big business. We're all people.

I'd like to make a difference, someday if I do well it would be nice to effect some small element of change from the bottom of society. In the end though the entirety of our lives is really just us as the universe experiencing itself and nothing really matters at all.

We can control only one thing: ourselves. And not even that all the time. Bother about making yourself good. That's the only thing you can do with any real effect. Even the Christian saints who were given visions by God and calls by God did not primarily care about changing the world. They cared first and foremost about doing God's will, period.

Speaking of, it is probably high time I leave this discussion. My shrink was right. It's not bad, but even good things can waste your time.

Peace out, all. I depart this thread.

[Burinn]

Make sure you get out there and vote tomorrow New Yorkers!

[borka]

Make sure you get out there and vote tomorrow New Yorkers!

As long you didn't miss the deadlines ...

To vote in the upcoming Presidential Primary, you must be a registered Republican or Democrat. For already registered voters, any change to party enrollment was to have been requested by October 9th, 2015 in order for it to have gone into effect and be applicable for any primary election occurring in 2016 or beyond. The deadline for new voter registrations is March 25th.

[MagicManICT]

Notice how you have to change party nearly six months earlier. I guess there's reason for that (have discussed it in a poli-sci class I took in college), but I still find it hilarious that some states feel like they need this.

[borka]

-snip- stores like ALDI, so while I know they are a very efficient business I'm suspicious of just how much of the savings are passed on to the consumer.

"Stores" like Aldi (or any other discounter chain) sure don't share their savings ... most people don't know that those get lots of their goods delivered and have to pay them long time later (even as far as 2 yrs) - not like real stores that have very short terms (straight away, 7 days, seldom a month) for paying for delivered goods ... so when a discounter chain sells you something that money isn't going to the manufacturer straight away but is "working" a while ...