What would change if Death was removed?

[ekzarh]

How many non-permadeath games we have? Millions.
How many permadeath games? I think less than a dozen.

Why do I personally play Haven when there are so many games with many cool features and looks? Cuz other games don't offer any interesting risk vs reward, although Haven is way more carebear now too which is bad.

So removing death would make Haven lose its uniqueness and get on the same level with many other games with million $ budgets and 200+ people teams.

[2d0x]

...So removing death would make Haven lose its uniqueness ...

Not the removal of death at all, but the removal of stupid senseless murders.

...and get on the same level with many other games with million $ budgets and 200+ people teams.

In fact, it's money that developers need ;\

[Avu]

The game would be boring, most of the players from russia/poland that are hardcore players would quit, there would be even more titan characters, the gap between noobs and pros would be even bigger.. yeah

Woah woah we wouldn't want that now would we? That would be terrible.

Anyway removing death wouldn't be enough, it would have to include vandalism over claims with the current siege system which would need to be tweaked.

A push out mechanic would have to be included to get rid of alt blockers.

There will be some forest cutting alts around not so much because forest cutting is effective grieffing but because the a way more efficient grieffing method got removed (you know killing the people). Same way the god killer dude killed quest givers people will always find ways to grieff without you being able to do fuck all to them murder ability or not. The problem is alts not inability to murder.

Grieff claims will be more of a thing. Play style would need to be adapted to gather all the lp for your claim before deciding on settling on a final location. A modified claim shield system could be used only instead of guards on siege machines one would have to pay a cost depending on the size and level of development of the claim one wants to remove. The defender will have to pay say half of the same cost for the challenge to fail with the price increasing the older the claim is. The timing should be a week or so. The price should be steep. Should sort out most grieffing cases.

There will be some alts on bots blaring insults near walls and the like. I'd just clover a boar and pen it in with the alt. Or push the alt around a bit.

There will be pushing alts that push you when you go about your business. Pushing should check the str and con of the characters and depending on the difference the longer it takes to push. Characters should get a huge bonus while on their claim with added bonuses for their village and kingdom claims and the bonus should decrease the further one goes from these locations. This should get rid of pushing alts but some developed pushing shenanigans might still happen. Beats dying though.

Eventually there will be a need for systems of pvp of the non murdering kind. Leaderboards for stats, number of animal kills, number of foods eaten for each type, item quality, deepest well, animals owned etc... Ability to place enforced wagers over sparring matches.

[NOOBY93]

Killing isn't just about removing bodyblocking alts. If killing were removed, you could be an absolute pest to anyone and destroy their stuff without them being able to destroy you. Game is centered around being able to do WHATEVER you want - create anything anywhere permanently, but also be able to remove other players' permanent creations and characters.

[2d0x]

If killing were removed, you could be an absolute pest to anyone and destroy their stuff without them being able to destroy you.

If criminal acts become available only after studying the skills of pvp, then such problems do not arise.

Game is centered around being able to do WHATEVER you want - create anything anywhere permanently, but also be able to remove other players' permanent creations and characters.

Currently, the game encourages the senseless killing of defenseless players. When you hunt, you make a choice: to attack or not. And you have a chance to survive even if the animal turned out to be stronger. But when another player attacks you, you have no choice, no chance.
Personally, I'm not against permanent death, realism and pvp. But instead of realism, I see a manic hunt for skulls, and instead of pvp - slaughter of weak and peaceful players who can not protect themselves.

[NOOBY93]

If killing were removed, you could be an absolute pest to anyone and destroy their stuff without them being able to destroy you.

If criminal acts become available only after studying the skills of pvp, then such problems do not arise.

Game is centered around being able to do WHATEVER you want - create anything anywhere permanently, but also be able to remove other players' permanent creations and characters.

Currently, the game encourages the senseless killing of defenseless players. When you hunt, you make a choice: to attack or not. And you have a chance to survive even if the animal turned out to be stronger. But when another player attacks you, you have no choice, no chance.

If criminal acts become available only after studying the skills of pvp, then such problems do not arise.

Criminal acts are not the only way to mess up someone. It's a multiplayer game. Say, hypothetically, you really like a tree. I really like the tree too. I claim the tree, I just messed a part of you up doing that. No criminal acts involved. If there's more than 1 person in the universe, at some point the wishes of one will clash with the wishes of another and create conflict. If there was a way in the game to avoid conflict and choose not to do PvP, the game would be flawed.

Currently, the game encourages the senseless killing of defenseless players.

No it doesn't. Nidbanes, redhanded (1 hour waste of time), outlaw (removes use of charter stones), especially redhanded, make you not want to random kill defenseless people who don't have anything useful for you, for no reason.

But when another player attacks you, you have no choice, no chance.

Yes you do, you have no idea what you're talking about.

[2d0x]

...Nidbanes...

Very funny :\ A high Stealth parameter and no tracks :\ Plus your descendant after permanent death loses the lion's share of LP :\

[NOOBY93]

especially redhanded,

And I don't understand the whining about people with high stats killing you, people with high stealth being untrackable, like no shit, all strong players started as sprucecaps and worked their way up, if you want to avoid dying, join them or become as strong as them, the game isn't going to babysit you because you're too lazy to develop your character.

[2d0x]

And I don't understand the whining about people with high stats killing you, people with high stealth being untrackable, like no shit, all strong players started as sprucecaps and worked their way up, if you want to avoid dying, join them or become as strong as them, the game isn't going to babysit you because you're too lazy to develop your character.

That is, players are to blame for not being well-versed in the game, that they are not cruel enough and they do not have much time? So cute.

NOOBY93, and why did you decide that the desire of psychos, idiots and maniacs in the game should be in the first place ?!

[NOOBY93]

And I don't understand the whining about people with high stats killing you, people with high stealth being untrackable, like no shit, all strong players started as sprucecaps and worked their way up, if you want to avoid dying, join them or become as strong as them, the game isn't going to babysit you because you're too lazy to develop your character.

That is, players are to blame for not being well-versed in the game, that they are not cruel enough and they do not have much time? So cute.

What?

You don't need to be cruel to level up your character, what the fuck are you talking about?

I'm not particularly well-versed in the game (don't know 90% of the mechanics post-legacy) nor do I have too much time, but I joined the strong players and I don't die to random players. If you can't beat them join them.

Again, the game isn't going to babysit you. If you're incapable of fighting the nolifers, work for the nolifers, plenty of them would let you do that.