H & H Discord?

[loftar]

literally just google "criticism of java"

That just hits the criticisms of the language itself, which is hardly what we're discussing here, and of which I have my own laundry list.

"java vulnerabilities"

I do see that you mention vulnerabilities a lot, but I don't see what that has to do with a programming language. I mean, sure, back when Java Applets were a thing, I'm sure that was a relevant aspect, but how many years have passed since then?

Replace "browser" with "phone app." "Browser" was about 15 years ago.

Well, since most phone apps are literally just a browser with a packaged web app, the difference is academic.

[MagicManICT]

Well, since most phone apps are literally just a browser with a packaged web app, the difference is academic.

this is true, but it takes a level higher skill to use a browser directly.

[loftar]

this is true, but it takes a level higher skill to use a browser directly.

It is certainly true that app stores are the cancer of our age.

I have sometimes considered whether it would be reasonable to package and publish the Haven client on the Windows Store (just because why not), but I just can't bring myself to go past the putrid smell of it.

[boshaw]

Well, since most phone apps are literally just a browser with a packaged web app, the difference is academic.

Pretty sure Discord is an electron app so basically a browser packed into a desktop app as well.

[Burinn]

I envy anyone living outside the U.S. The credit bureaus had ~75% of the country's social security numbers, DOB, ect. stolen a couple years ago. Everyone in the US is one bad day away from identity theft that'll take years to sort out in court.

[loftar]

Pretty sure Discord is an electron app so basically a browser packed into a desktop app as well.

Indeed.

[Broomdust]

I don't want to be dismissive, but I'm neither an expert on nor have the desire to go on a long rant about Java. If you're somehow not aware of the major issues people take with Java literally just google "criticism of java", "java vulnerabilities", or anything of that nature and start reading.

Have you read the site's documentation and forum history? Loftar has written more than a little bit here about the choices to use Java.

Are you on a crusade against java, or just uninformed about cybersecurity? Known security issues can be shored up via other methods. What are you going to do about that zero day attack some hackers have discovered in Discord?

I'm not on a crusade against anything, honestly I didn't even want to have a drawn out conversation on this but I'm having a hard time finding a good exit where my points aren't misconstrued.

My thesis was and remains this: I, and from my general experience a majority of other people, would like a primary Haven Discord server that's backed by Jorb and Loftar to facilitate easier communication with them and the community at large. If their reasoning is that they don't like Discord on principle then ultimately that's their prerogative, but they should be aware that it doesn't come across favorably to a userbase that I assume they would like to please and do right by.

[MagicManICT]

I didn't even want to have a drawn out conversation on this but I'm having a hard time finding a good exit where my points aren't misconstrued.

As the line from the movie went "don't start no shit and there won't be no shit." It's all good. Some of us are a bit hardcore in everything we choose to do, so don't sweat too hard about it.

Seriously, though, the devs are just old school like this. They do IRC. They are almost always in #haven on synirc.com. I thought it was mentioned in this thread, but I'm probably just mixing wires with an identical thread because this just comes up way too often when we get a lot of new people or a new world. it was skype just a few years ago. There are IRC apps for phone and browser; websites, or you can get an IRC or Telnet terminal for desktop to connect. it does take a little more to learn, and there isn't generally video or voice chat available (someone has to host a peer-to-peer session). there are means for file sharing, and you can run other things via IRC. (Used to have a M:TG chatbot back in the mid-late 90s... not sure if it's still around.)

[loftar]

If their reasoning is that they don't like Discord on principle then ultimately that's their prerogative, but they should be aware that it doesn't come across favorably to a userbase that I assume they would like to please and do right by.

There are a couple of reasons why I wouldn't want to do that, but perhaps most importantly:

• If I'm going to do anything "official", I want to rely on third parties as little as absolutely possible for that. I'd at least want to be able to host it personally. That rules out Discord.
• I myself don't want to use Discord, and therefore I would never be in said channel, which would seem to defeat part of the point.
• I'm generally wary of creating official "things" for Haven at all, including such things as Wikis. I find that many of these things are better off being player-run. That being said, we do obviously have an official forum, so the line is somewhat fuzzy and I'm not necessarily totally intrinsically opposed to it for that reason alone, it just biases me against it.

Also, be the change you want to see in the world. It seems you also don't like Discord, so unless it's absolutely critical for you, don't use it.

[Broomdust]

I didn't even want to have a drawn out conversation on this but I'm having a hard time finding a good exit where my points aren't misconstrued.

As the line from the movie went "don't start no shit and there won't be no shit." It's all good. Some of us are a bit hardcore in everything we choose to do, so don't sweat too hard about it.

Seriously, though, the devs are just old school like this. They do IRC. They are almost always in #haven on synirc.com. I thought it was mentioned in this thread, but I'm probably just mixing wires with an identical thread because this just comes up way too often when we get a lot of new people or a new world. it was skype just a few years ago. There are IRC apps for phone and browser; websites, or you can get an IRC or Telnet terminal for desktop to connect. it does take a little more to learn, and there isn't generally video or voice chat available (someone has to host a peer-to-peer session). there are means for file sharing, and you can run other things via IRC. (Used to have a M:TG chatbot back in the mid-late 90s... not sure if it's still around.)

I'm well aware of Jorbtar being set in their ways, I've been on and off Haven for about 10 years now even though I've never been particularly involved beyond a reiterating village of close friends. And while I do appreciate the IRC breakdown, I've been in various closeknit IRC communities most of my life and have popped in haven's occasionally, it still doesn't change the fact that it's going to continue to be less convenient than discord and is going to be used by far less of the community than a primary discord server would.

If their reasoning is that they don't like Discord on principle then ultimately that's their prerogative, but they should be aware that it doesn't come across favorably to a userbase that I assume they would like to please and do right by.

There are a couple of reasons why I wouldn't want to do that, but perhaps most importantly:

• If I'm going to do anything "official", I want to rely on third parties as little as absolutely possible for that. I'd at least want to be able to host it personally. That rules out Discord.
• I myself don't want to use Discord, and therefore I would never be in said channel, which would seem to defeat part of the point.
• I'm generally wary of creating official "things" for Haven at all, including such things as Wikis. I find that many of these things are better off being player-run. That being said, we do obviously have an official forum, so the line is somewhat fuzzy, and I'm not necessarily totally intrinsically opposed to it for that reason alone.

Then we're probably at an impasse here, I still urge you to reconsider but I don't really have anything to come back with.