Haven 2.0: "Hafen"

[DeadlyPencil]

very simple changes can almost negate the use the bots.

for example making all crop harvesting take 47 hours (1 hour less than 2 full days so u can always harvest the same time) no matter the crop (carrots etc), would make botting them only slightly better than doing them manually. It would also give you a full day of being able to do something else other than farm if your solo. At the moment you have to harvest carrots 2+ times a day to stay competitive with that crop.

Then removing the relationship of stamina with hunger and simply making it so a player needs to eat a certain amount of food per day will make it so players strive to eat the best food they can rather than as much as they can and that people dont need to harvest huge fields of crops.

Then with botting curios, if you made certain curios self found only (make the curios autostudy once found and if you already have 1 of that type you cant find another) then people would use their mains more often for hunting and farming and mining etc. You could still have manufactured curios and swamp/mountain curios. If you make it so that a botted character isn’t the best character, then people wont be to mad about people having htem. also increasing the study time on almost all curios by alot would make it so botting your study is less of an advantage. making 24h curios more common for example.

[Potjeh]

@Potjeh
Its foolish to imagine a MMO that doesn't have grind, it just doesn't exist.

Planetside 2.

Also, I'm talking about bots not because they're the problem, but because they're the biggest symptom of the grind problem.

[kret1337]

@Potjeh
Its foolish to imagine a MMO that doesn't have grind, it just doesn't exist.

Planetside 2.

Also, I'm talking about bots not because they're the problem, but because they're the biggest symptom of the grind problem.

Planetside 2 Genre: shooter
nice try

[Potjeh]

An MMO shooter, yes. With guilds, quests, upgrades and all that good stuff.

[Kaios]

O shit we are losing the argument

lol no

@Potjeh
Its foolish to imagine a MMO that doesn't have grind, it just doesn't exist. Even so you would be better off trying to do minor corrections on top of the current game to achieve it.

No one really has an issue with a bit of grind, from what I understand it's like Potjeh said already, there are negative symptoms caused by the infinite grind this game allows for and something should be done to remedy that.

a reboot would dilute the water to much for finding a fix for the problem.

I'm unsure why you think that.

facepalm

Nice retort.

examples

I'm uncertain how your curiosity suggestion would work out in regards to only being able to find the ones you aren't already studying as personally one of the things I enjoy about the curiosity system is being able to find them whether you need them or not at the time and essentially store LP for later use. They are also used in trading so I think your suggestion would have an affect on that as well. I'm a bit confused by your farming example but I do agree with removing the relationship between the hunger bar and stamina bar, I've always found that to be rather annoying.

[RubyRed]

Doing work makes you hungry. The stamina bar helps you get hungry more work you do. One thing that could be changed is by how much. But as you walk around a forest you get hungry. Since it uses stamina, not much but enough you notice you become more hungry as you move. It makes sense its a way to say you are getting hungry. Standing around does not do that, but most actions use stamina and in turn make you hungry.

The rate in which it does could be looked at, but people already want the best foods just in-mass.

[Danno]

Its foolish to imagine a MMO that doesn't have grind, it just doesn't exist.

It's not foolish, it just takes some original thinking. The reason MMOs have grind currently is because the developers are lazy. It's the easiest way to make a game last forever, which in turn allows the developers to milk their players' wallets forever. Grinding prevents players from getting to the meat of the game since, well, they don't want you to finish all the game's content within a week since then you'd have nothing left to do and you'd quit.

H&H is not a typical MMO. We don't grind monsters for experience and rare drops, we don't do repeatable "fetch" quests given by NPCs, there are no bosses, we don't use potions in battle to fully heal ourselves and eliminate all danger, and our primary opponent is not the game, but our fellow players instead. The people who designed the generic MMOs would tell you H&H is foolish for being different. They'd tell you the lack of direction and freedom to make decisions is pointless.

I think H&H has the potential to become an MMO with minimal grinding. I doubt Jorb and Loftar intended this game to be such a horrible grindfest, it most likely turned out that way by accident, especially with a playerbase that's used to grinding in other MMOs.

very simple changes can almost negate the use the bots.

The bots can be stopped easily, but the game will still be so boring that people wish they could use bots. Instead of tinkering with the details, they should just try to make the game so enjoyable to play, that no one would want a bot to hog all the fun.

[GrapefruitV]

People use bots not because game is boring, but because they want to get advantage. It is not necessary to pave huge areas, harvest 3000 tiles of carrot everyday, boil mussels 24/7, ... to play the game and get fun. Bots also don't help at raising quality.

[Kaios]

Bots also don't help at raising quality.

Not in the sense that a person botting has some magical extra quality gains every time they harvest over a person doing it manually, but botting makes it so much easier as that person farming may be harvesting their plants at every chance they can get where as the person who farms manually may not have the time/energy to continue with each harvest as soon as they come.

Also you mentioned the giant ass carrot fields which are another good example of ways a botter can increase their chances of getting the most top quality seeds they can each harvest compared to a manual farmer who are likely growing their crops in a much smaller quantity (Although I'm aware that isn't always the case and the manual farmers can literally be like bots themselves).

To say they don't help raising quality at all though, even a little bit, isn't correct in my opinion.

[GrapefruitV]

You are right about everything in theory, but yet non-botters have top quality seeds every world. Maybe because 99% of botters use same script, which plants the best seed char has in inventory, i.e. works wrong for quality growing.