Haven 2.0: "Hafen"

[Xcom]

Grindless MMOs are often shallow and meaningless. Only a good MMO knows where to put the grind so the game can be interesting and ongoing. There is an actual reason behind MMOs grind and its idiotic to think its possible to remove it. It takes over 3 years to develop a PC game and less then a week of casual gameplay to reach the end-boss and kill it. Naturally game content in any PC game takes longer to develop then to get played through. Its easy to sit here and theorycraft bunch of idealistic minutia about how we can put everyone against each other and in that weird mix generate content. No such theoretical game exists and or ever have and never will. Content takes a hole lot of time to develop, it doesn't spring out of a fountain like magical fairy dust.

For the same reasons any long lasting PC game thereby needs a form of repetitive game mechanic to prevent the haste of burning through content. Haven is slow going and compared to most MMOs the slowest pace of its kind. Salem was even worse, Haven 2 will probably follow the same trend and become even grindier. Sadly what makes Haven really tick is the fact the content that is being played through is balanced in speed and form that it has attracted its audience that likes this particular pace. Yet its dismissed so blatantly and will be scrapped for the next model that might have none of the same appeal.

Why is the current Haven better to keep then the next one. Simply because the balance is optimal, the content is attractive, the pace is ideal for its audience, game mechanics needs dusting off and just overlooked but overall it actually works. Over two years it was ignored and it still lived on in the thickest of lags while its successor tanked like a sinking rock after JnL stopped developing it for a few months. Is it then still worth tossing it for something that can fail just as hard as Salem?

Right before game releases people flock like brainless sheep believing this is the next fucking game that will quench there thirst, then after played it for a day to realize its just the same as every other bullshit that is out there. It takes a ton of the exact perfect vibes for you to get hooked into a perfect game and I believe a lot of the haven players that have stuck around do so cause this right here is that ideal game. Not the next reboot they are working on. Every cat that drags into this forum and asks for a reboot simply want that next perfect ideal game they want for Christmas as if they were that five year old kid again, except ITS NEVER COMING. Take whats here and play it or get the fuck out, Christmas is never coming.

Edit: Thank you Mr mod

[Oddity]

Simply because the balance is optimal

In some ways it's good, in other ways it's terrible.

[Sarge]

Fantastic post, seriously. But then

... Christmas is never coming.

you broke my fucking heart

[Granger]

Is it then still worth tossing it for something that can fail just as hard as Salem?

I would like to see Hafen as a rewrite of the server side (with which - according to Loftar - he painted himself into some corners so fixes to old bugs like tanning tub, fuel bugs etc. are hard to impossible and extensions are getting more tricky with each one) to have a base for easy developement - while keeping the game as-is as much as possible.

Having tested Salem i fear for the moment when my dream clashes with the hard and unvorgiving reality of what will come - but hope dies last...

[Danno]

Only a good MMO knows where to put the grind so the game can be interesting and ongoing. There is an actual reason behind MMOs grind and its idiotic to think its possible to remove it. It takes over 3 years to develop a PC game and less then a week of casual gameplay to reach the end-boss and kill it. Naturally game content in any PC game takes longer to develop then to get played through. Its easy to sit here and theorycraft bunch of idealistic minutia about how we can put everyone against each other and in that weird mix generate content. No such theoretical game exists and or ever have and never will. Content takes a hole lot of time to develop, it doesn't spring out of a fountain like magical fairy dust.

Are you kidding me? Yes, the whole idea of grind is to draw out the gameplay as long as possible, but that doesn't make it interesting or fun. It just makes it tedious and repetitive, which is why tons of people declare that they hate all MMOs without exception. I have a friend who played Haven with me for about 1 or 2 days. He played DFO with me for about 1 or 2 days. However, he played Minecraft and Space Station 13 for months. Why? Because they're fun to play and don't make you sit for 10 minutes while your hearthling builds a house.

Minecraft is tedious when you're using wooden or stone equipment. That's why everyone opts to use diamond equipment - it virtually eliminates any grinding the game has. As for Space Station 13, it's not very well known, but it has a pretty solid following for a laggy game with shitty graphics and no standalone client. By the way, your "No such theoretical game exists and or ever have and never will" statement is wrong because that's exactly what SS13 is all about. See, the wonderful thing about those games is that the player can spend their time playing the game instead of needlessly sitting around doing the same old bullshit day in, day out.

Popularity contest anyone?
2193 likes - https://www.facebook.com/SpaceStation13
314 likes - https://www.facebook.com/pages/Haven-an ... 8601638712

Whatever content the devs create, the players will conquer it within 1 or 2 days. It is impossible for the devs to keep up and continue to make new content. That leads us to the past few years of Haven where we get 1 or 2 small updates per year and everyone just grinds all day erry day with nothing interesting happening. Unless they want another boring old grindfest MMORPG, they need to do the smart thing - use the players themselves as the main content.

[GrapefruitV]

wait, what players are supposed to do in minecraft and how it is different to hnh (i.e. fun, not grindy)?

[borka]

Popularity contest anyone?
2193 likes - https://www.facebook.com/SpaceStation13
314 likes - https://www.facebook.com/pages/Haven-an ... 8601638712

who cares about "Fratzenbook" likes?!? If any: Shakira, Shakira - that's popularity
(on the other hand with about 500 active players 314 likes isn't that bad ) also you might be aware that there are even HnH players playing SS13


And your friend is an IN guy ...

[Granger]

Thinking about facebook and fame this comes to my mind:

Translation:

If you have no clue who this is... ...but know about that one.
Congratulation
You are exactly what goes wrong in this world.

[TeckXKnight]

I actually don't know who the chemist on the mid far left is or the woman on the right.

[GrapefruitV]

I actually don't know who the chemist on the mid far left is or the woman on the right.

Chemist is Marie Curie, dunno about the right one.