Haven 2.0: "Hafen"

[McJager]

One should always be able to boil, Even if it means carrying water and a pot on the bus with you.

[Massa]

One should always be able to boil, Even if it means carrying water and a pot on the bus with you.

Do you do that.

[McJager]

If you're not always ready to boil you're doing life wrong, Ramen is life. I like the idea of an item that helps find nodes (If Nodes are here to stay) But for realism I think a clay dowsing rod would be ridiculous, Perhaps something similar to rustroot extract?

[TeckXKnight]

I've actually never been forced to use the tablets before. I've had the luxury of a working filtration pump every time I've gone backpacking. That said boiling is probably better than iodine tablets. =)

[Potjeh]

What I don't like about them is that they're invisible, there's no rhyme or reason to their location [...] and only the very best ones matter in the endgame.

Don't you think it's slightly contradictory to want them to be both clearly visible (to newly created characters) and an end-game thing, though?

I really don't see any contradiction, if it's possible to actually take over territory by force. But that's assuming high q stuff exists in the wild, which I don't think should be the case. I think different biomes in their natural state should give q10 stuff, but they should have the potential to be developed by the players into higher q. IMO every biome of the same type should have equal potential, but competition for resources should be encouraged by making some biomes rare.

[Tonkyhonk]

I think different biomes in their natural state should give q10 stuff, but they should have the potential to be developed by the players into higher q.

i like the idea of developing potentials but that sounds like another grind that you have been criticizing, along with the competition of taking "already developed land" (instead of high q resource you found) by force.

[Potjeh]

Whether grind is bad depends just on it's implementation. LP/stat grind is bad because it requires no-lifing the game (stats much more so, though) to be able to participate in non-consensual PvP (so ability to participate is mandatory), and the never-ending growth means that when a world has been around for a while the gap will be too big for a sane player to join the game.

As for taking developed land by force, I think that's a good thing. Legitimate reasons for player conflict are vastly preferred to random griefing, and would do a much better job at bringing players together into factions.

[Tonkyhonk]

you mean, the ideal end-game for you is trying to protect the no-more-changing land you developed and keep the quality of it, and/or trying to sabotage or raid your enemies? will new players chances be just "join a faction or die"?

[Potjeh]

You can have infinite progressions AND balanced PvP by putting a cap on the advantage given by UA/gear q/whatever delta. Personally I don't care much for watching the pretty numbers rise, but I understand some people do so why not have our cake and eat it too?

As for hermit developed land being taken over by factions, there's a natural limit beyond which it doesn't make sense. What use is land without enough people to work it? Especially if unworked land gradually reverted to it's natural state. A far more likely scenario is those hermits being bribed or coerced into joining, and the extent of both of those is limited by the resources (manpower, mostly) available to the faction.

[Tonkyhonk]

no, potjeh, what i means is that i dont see much meaning to have a change from "seeing a number rise" to "keeping the same number from falling". the latter makes the grind just another routine that encourages botting yet again. i also have a hard time understanding people wanting artificial restrictions or limits to the game just so later joiners can catch up easily...

i do agree that it would be nice to have some kind of system that encourages players to accept new players living nearby, for example, by having more of the worked out land by other players in the same SG pushes up the overall quality average, or having neighbors around your place rewards you somehow - as you had suggested many times previously - but i never find it great to have a system that forces players to join a certain faction out of desperation.