We need a new world

[Ozzy123]

wall of text

This guy is extacly how PVE players look for me xD

[avros008]

"wall of text" ahahahah

[Granger]

wall of text

This guy is extacly how PVE players look for me xD

They pay the devs, so they keep the game alive - where's the problem with them?

But I think its good idea to make two worlds.

I still would like to make the experiment I suggested prior this world, so see how it develops when players roam with world in a different mindset.

[stya]

Should have made this thread on 1st april, it would have been appropriate.

If you want to make more regular resets do it but on another server with its own new world, don't ruin our current world (since regular resets probably won't work in the long run anyway). Some people like to build things, develop over time you know, not everyone goes no life the first weeks and then quit because 'there is nothing to do bruh'.

[dafels]

fuck new worlds, the wipe made me quit, new worlds is not the same for me anymore. I would have liked more if world 9 would have not been wiped at all and kept playing probably. And agreed with ozzy, you don't need bots to be competitive.

[romovs]

I wish there were a reset soon so I can finally quit this addiction once and for all.

[Jalpha]

I think a more permanent world would result in some epic stuff. I remember travelling the road from one end of the Wurm PvE map to the other through mountains, along mountains, across water passing every kind of biome and epic towns. The man hours that went into that road I don't even. It was a public project, a lot of people chipped in. Literally chipped. This was before the buff to terraforming mountain terrain.

Then I remember visiting the PvP server lol. That place was an abomination. I couldn't believe anyone would live in such squalor. People did though and they had fun there.

Separate servers, more permanent worlds and also one that resets frequently might be a good thing for the community at some point. I don't see it happening for some time though, the game still changes too much too often and I think other changes would need to be made to make it work well.

[Sevenless]

lol Ozzy, you call that a wall of text? Wait till you see mine


Endgame wise: Albion is a terrible example, because it has the same issue haven does. Lots of interest early, and then the population slowly drops. Outside the early game, people get bored quite quickly.

The only games that ever achieved lasting stability as sandbox builders are Starwars Galaxies and Ultima Online. Sandbox minus the building, the only one I'm aware of is EVE.

Starwars Galaxies fostered forced socialization via game mechanics, and long term made crafting high end items an issue of RNG hunting and patience. It was easy to craft ok gear, but truly excellent gear tooks months. The crafting system was intricate and complex, but once fully mapped by front runners guides made it easy to navigate. Limited PvP outside formal wars if I remember correctly, but faction warfare (empire vs rebel) was a common end game activity.

Ultima Online, I actually can't attest for ultima never having really gotten into it. I just know that it had very good longevity and was primarily sandbox. Player housing, crafting, long term skill grind were all components. PvP was full loot, and a frequent component of the game.

EVE, forced socialization via game scope, but really at its heart eve has two components. "Indy" players who like to make stuff, and then pvpers who like to blow stuff up. PvP exists at many levels, from small group to large scale war. It's very difficult to do pvp solo, but in 3+ man groups it's quite common. The important note about eves faction based PvP is that it maintains itself via scope. The rewards for owning territory are large, and the area controlled is incredibly vast. Ergo, it's impossible to dominate all of eve space, manpower becomes a significant issue. Indy types are too common, and the game always clamours for more people to pilot ships. Even indy players can engage in pvp due to how the games market system works, so going head to head with players is nearly a universal concept.

The biggest takeaway I get from this is frankly that PvP is a meaningful driver of endgame content. "Emergent" content as I hear it called, and haven has some of that. I honestly feel though that pvp has too heavy a weight to make it "fun" for the average place in Haven due to the permadeath system (I'm going to lump in base permadeath, but mainly due to quality competitiveness). So you get a small kernal of PvPers who enjoy that, and then the rest of the less hardcore pvpers get shied away after a death. Meanwhile Haven's crafting is quite engaging for crafting types, but often there's a disconnect between crafters and pvpers causing schisms in cohesion. Namely resource competition (both crafters and warriors need fairly similar resources to progress), difficulty valuing pvp importance for a village (primarily outside large factions, for smaller groups where warriors usually get killed without having good impact), and morality issues (due to the weight of pvp in this game, many crafters are morally opposed to offensive actions).

So what happens is that the main people left playing the game are hermits enjoying the trading/crafting side of the game trying to avoid being noticed, the rare crafter who likes supplying large factions, and the rare PvPer who also doesn't mind intense grind and likes risking weeks of progress in fights that last at most a couple hours. For minor factions one of the biggest issues I see is the ability to either fall behind the quality/stat curve and becoming out competed, or frankly getting killed off. Some people have mentioned sieging is too difficult between factions right now so the second issue might not be so huge. Even outside character permadeath, base permadeath exists as well. So factions can truly be wiped off the map for a world if a proper breach happens. Quality grind wise, the game feels very much like a job due to how it works.

So the pvp in haven is niche, and anyone interested in endgame pve content risks falling behind if they aren't grinding every day. Some quality grind even requires bots or not sleeping like a sane human (carrots>mulch>wood quality chain). This quality grind is compounded by character or base pvp permanently putting you out of the running.

Fixing pvp (outside the actual system, as in making it appeal to a larger audience) is... well a debate in haven. I've argued many times over my viewpoint, and frankly other people have raised it as well. Nothing new to add to that conversation.

Fixing pve (and its indirect impact on pvp), I've never really thought of it before but since seeing realm bonuses I wondered if maybe the one thing we're missing is some kind of catch up mechanic. Bonuses to help the general playerbase catch up to the leading faction. More could be done as well to make livestock less punishing for keeping up their quality as right now I hear a lot of farmers complaining about the volume of grind behind them to maintain a high quality herd.

Edit: Please don't suggest splitting up havens already small community. If we're going to experiment with new rules, well it is eternal alpha. It could be set in place with conditions like "This will only last this world, pending review and player feedback".

[dageir]

It seems like the time frame of this game is 3-4 months.
After everyone has built their village and done "everything" the game becomes stale.
A part of the problem is that few wants to risk their chars because of the permadeath. Less action.
Everyone should be able to kill everyone at any time without any rules from day one. No visitor bullshit or nidbanes.
Make the difference between the players their equpment, not their stats. Drop stats and FEPS alltogether.
Make high end equipment complex and hard to make. The loss of equipment and base would be a bigger problem than losing the character.

[jordancoles]

It's actually insane though
Like this last patch
Killed 90% of my motivation
Day 2 after the patch I was resubbed to another game and after a week of no revert I gave even less fucks
Who wants to play when ganks are so easy? Can't run without drinking, every move you do slows you a bit, no solid blue/green defenses, no fun and no one wants fights
Could've just changed the IP mechanics for zigzag/artful and then worked on optimization for a while. Would've been better than just shitting on combat and walking away for a month