What happenned to crossroad to Constantinople?

[burgingham]

Well let me try to get into a neutral position here, since I am not really playing that much anyway it shouldn't be too hard. Johnsmith you may indeed have some valid concerns, problem being your image on this board already. Some of this image might have been caused by us, but you will have to agree that you have brought quite alot of this on you yourself.
When you critizise a town and its policy of course its members will tend to disagree with you. Of course quite some members of this town will feel the urge to jusify themselves, so why are you so surprised that mostly Sodomites are reacting to your constant verbal attacks on their town? We might be quite narrow minded when it comes to accusation against us, but again this isn't very surprising. After all we are playing this game as a group. We are pals in this game, have alot of fun chatting together, engaging bigger projects, improving ourselves etc etc. This is what makes the game fun for us. We might miss that some people will view our policies as a threat to them or maybe even the entire hearthlands. If however you are willing to discuss matters with us in a diplomatic way we are more than willing to listen to you. The best person to adress here is juhubert, you will not find a more peaceful and mediative player in Haven&Hearth.

@circlejerk as you call it. True almost all members of Sodom are longtime players. This is our recruitement policy. We only take in people we personally know, so we don't fall for the same mistakes we made in world 2, when quite some of the drama came from traitors within your own town. It was mostly chakravanti and me who were able to bury the hatchet after being archenemies in world 2 and gather our forces into one big project. His town was packed with longtime players, as was mine. We were able to add some people from Brodgar and Xanadu as well, all having major impact in the worlds past. This was one of the things I enjoyed most about this game, because I love to be envolved in politics. Bringing all the greatest minds playing Haven together in one group I consider to be to a good part my achivement.

The playerbase used to be much smaller back in the days, most of us even saw world 1, where there were no more than 30 players online at a time. Same for the forums. So it isn't all too surprising we have a good connection to the devs, because back then we were the only guys playing and the devs could invest much more time into listening to our ideas, presenting their idea to us and so on. That jorb drops in at Sodom from time to time, to show off his cool new wizard hat or wolfcape doesn't mean he is favouring us in any way. He removed those cliffs for us (which I am thankful for, but I can see that you should disagree with such favours. Hey, he was drunk and I took advantage of it ^^), but that is about it. Heck jorb nerfed my char back to total noobdom in world 2 after we abused a serious bug, took much more lp from me than I had gathered with that bug. I get punished as everyone else when I don't stick to the rules.

Same goes for players building this island fortress. It is a clear policy of JLo that you are not allowed to abuse bugs which make your hearthfires impossible to access. There have been other examples, like when houses were indestructible and you could build them right next to eachother. The devs always have removed such obstacles, no matter who was asking for it or who was hiding. Jorb has made it clear one more time when those island forts were created and no they were not the idea of Russians. As someone else pointed out the idea was out there for a long time. Klaue, the master of PvP and abusing bugs, brought it up first I guess. Nobody of us ever used it though, because it was crystal clear to us that we would feel the fist of jorb should we ever do so.

Last but not least. We really were only tracking scents from the destruction of Nople cr and the attacks on Rome when we hunted those criminals in Fort Ross and Ironcliff. It than became apparent to us that those two towns were nothing more than hideouts, connected to the real cities behind the constant attacks on hearthlings during the last few weeks. So tell me how do you expect us to react to this? Just leave them alone? As mentioned before I have aked them over and over to destroy the criminals hf and we would leave them alone. They refused to do so (which I can understand, I would have done the same), now they have to face the consequences. We never intended to threaten innocent towns just because we are Sodom. Not much more I can give you other than my word, so I guess you will just have to wait and see. Maybe this will change your opinion on Sodom over time.

Kinda know how lothaudus must feel after his posts. Tl;dr: This game is fueled by fucking drama, so carry on ^^

@johnsmith: Should you not be able to discuss this with me in a civilized manner I will send this thread to hel. Your last posts were insulting towards Sodomites only, no content whatsoever.

[johnsmith]

ok burg,

since the threat at the end of this post was that of sending this thread to Hel if the conversation doesn't go your way I will see just what it is that you want me to say to the following.

1. I created a recruitment thread for Port Eryie. (remember I [ME,Johnsmith] started the thread about RECRUITING). Datoneguy in particular and other Sodomites Hijacked MY thread turning it into a failed attempt at getting recruits. They effectively scared people away at the time. In that very thread which is in hel now, I had indicated that this is what was happening and asked that they stop. They did not and therefore the thread turned into a bitch fest back and forth. Subsequently, the thread was removed.

2. Within that thread and every one since the people from Sodom and the first world have consistently called me a troll regardless of where I post, some of this indeed was brought on by insistence in getting a rise out of them for hijacking my thread.

3. The mods (moderators) do know one another well from being around a long time, This has been made clear. I get temp banned for the same issues that datoneguy and Sodomite friends did to me, yet nothing happens to them, therefore one must assume the mods as well are in the CJ group regardless of in game affiliation.

4.Regardless of in game politics and play, the manner in which some of you guys treat a lot of people astounds me. Some of the Mods ( and their ass kissing friends) are very condescending, arrogant, and down right rude with double standards. Whether this is from boredom or simple exhaustion of answering same questions repeatedly doesn't matter. It does not bod well for you, the towns, nor the game in general. If it's too much for a moderator to control their urge for venting on people and actually moderating (look up the definition) they should resign their position.

In game I have always kept to my own business, worked hard for the villages I helped to create, played the game fair, and have had fun. As I have stated, this game is a terrific concept and like others would like it to become better.

As far as offending the Sodomites who would naturally react negatively to me, again, the finger pointing goes back to datoneguy and themselves for chiming in. It appears the only one saying anything about interference from these arrogant and stubborn individuals is me.

If this is going to be the "Moderator's" and the towns they live in forums, then maybe the name of the forums should be changed to that, but at this point it is called Haven and Hearth.


Now, if the first incident never occurred with datoneguy (from Sodom) trolling my thread for recruitment and the mods supporting their in game friend with double standards, one must ask if we would even be having this discussion.

And finally, You Burg, a moderator, not only helped hijack this thread (trolled) but you moved it from the trading thread to the politics thread as a way to justify your irresponsible behavior as a moderator and cover Sarge's interference with a call to arms in a trading thread. Now you are the one calling for moderation.

How can I, or anyone take you seriously, in game or on the forums?

[Dataslycer]

OK warning, huge amount of debating text below

For reference, he did not threaten to remove the thread to hel since he will know that you will utilize it as a mean to argue that Birgingham is abusing his moderator power. With the constant derailing and downright flaming that is going on, he actually has the right to but chose not to but decide to let a non-Sodom member do the job.

1. I created a recruitment thread for Port Eryie. (remember I [ME,Johnsmith] started the thread about RECRUITING). Datoneguy in particular and other Sodomites Hijacked MY thread turning it into a failed attempt at getting recruits. They effectively scared people away at the time. In that very thread which is in hel now, I had indicated that this is what was happening and asked that they stop. They did not and therefore the thread turned into a bitch fest back and forth. Subsequently, the thread was removed.

DatOneGuy was posting on possible flaws in your structure and recommend your group to repair it as soon as possible. You took it as an interpretation that he is trying to scare people away from your settlement. Now DatOneGuy has had his fair share of experience with raiders, having being a victim (and yeah the action that landed him in the waters was not smart), as well as witnessing victims getting raided constantly, Ravenholm struck 3 times by the same person, his own friends witnessing someone break down their palisade before getting shot to death by a ranger bow. Arguably, he should have no continue to advise you as one's mean of helping is very limited if the recipient does not wish to be help, no matter how ill-advised or well advised it is. However your response , subsequently, was being downright insulting.

Also you constantly refer to Potjeh's quote as a source of credibility of the safeness of palisade. However that post was before the palisade soak went from 45 soak down to 30, mentioned in IRC by loftar himself. A good amount of the people went on your case because you were arguing on incorrect information as well as your attitude that was posted afterwards, not to troll your recruitment thread. I suppose this is where you are getting the idea that everyone is backing each other up in all situation. Truth of the matter is that some of the people on that same thread as well as this one does not like each other but are still being civil as best as can be.

2. Within that thread and every one since the people from Sodom and the first world have consistently called me a troll regardless of where I post, some of this indeed was brought on by insistence in getting a rise out of them for hijacking my thread.

If people troll you, you don't troll back as it becomes a vicious cycle. You still remain civil and calmly state the flaw though still being overly courteous. Moving the attitude towards negative is what trolls want, if all else fails, just block them as completely ignoring their case is a good way to shut down a reason for them to hang around you. I'm not saying that either side is trolling but your response to it was completely opposite of what you should do. However the real issue is:

You done a good amount of derailing on your own threads, the one on the recruitment thread started on this post with this line.

Risks? The risks are the same no matter where you are and again like the thread pk'ers/griefers, unless you have iron you are screwed. an unbalanced game mechanics.

If you refer to the post from Sodom about Diplomacy, maybe that is the only solution at the moment.

Right now, you "making people aware" is interpreted as BEWARE stay away from Port Eryie.

Go do this to the other villages and see if they like it.

Are you an ass on purpose or is this just your nature?

You also subsequently hijack some of Sodom's thread out of anger, one being the Russian Diplomacy thread.

Trust...... lol, read their history of previous posts from the previous world to this and you will find that no matter what they say now doesn't really matter, they can and probably will turn on you in a heartbeat.

They can't even trust each other.

Do you guys actually have a life? It appears this is all you do is to continually berate, insult, and continue the condescending attitudes towards others.

This alone is a significant piece of evidence that Diplomacy in your view simply means "we are right you are wrong" and "do it our way or hit the highway".

Tack on the part that none of your Russian delegates from the other side has spoken up.

This is Sodom propaganda at its finest.

The last derailing was on this thread here.

I can now expect already from the response so far that I will now be censored, belittled, and brushed aside or banned again.

Is this Sodom's diplomacy guidelines? Overtake a thread started by me?

Listen to what you just said. "Truth be told, I could care less what you do or don't believe and will not waste my time trying to prove it." "I am convinced of this and this is all that matters"

Vigilantes and self righteous is exactly what you are sounding like.

Please keep this a relevant thread.

You have all right to criticize as well as point out flaws, but once you get to off-topic and insulting, things pretty much goes down hill from there.

3. The mods (moderators) do know one another well from being around a long time, This has been made clear. I get temp banned for the same issues that datoneguy and Sodomite friends did to me, yet nothing happens to them, therefore one must assume the mods as well are in the CJ group regardless of in game affiliation.

For the sake of your argument drop this inner friend. A few of the people mention don't like each other, hell Birgingham and Jackard are at each other's throat. The temp ban, I believe was due to the instigation of the whole derailing. A temp ban on all of the people would be impractical since, frankly, there was a huge amount of players getting involved and arguably their crime was not as severe. This temp-ban was made by a moderator, Sabinati, that had his city sacked by the moderators, Birgingham and Potjeh, so they may not be at good relations at the moment.

4.Regardless of in game politics and play, the manner in which some of you guys treat a lot of people astounds me. Some of the Mods ( and their ass kissing friends) are very condescending, arrogant, and down right rude with double standards. Whether this is from boredom or simple exhaustion of answering same questions repeatedly doesn't matter. It does not bod well for you, the towns, nor the game in general. If it's too much for a moderator to control their urge for venting on people and actually moderating (look up the definition) they should resign their position.

While I agree that some of the people here can be overly harsh as well as possible condescending, pushing your face to someone with such power is not a good way to go about. I myself disagree with a few of the choice made by them as well as the words used, it is because I have my own standard that is different from many of the others, based on my own experience. I do not believe there is a particular set standard for moderators here as long as they aren't overly abusive. However they do have the right to move wholly off-topic things into hel. Heck even this huge-ass post here is probably going to be moved as well.


Now as an impression, you have given yourself a very negative image to many of the people, despite having some valid points. Had you approach the manner in another way, you would have gotten a lot more people to agree with you. I hope the method of your statement changes soon, at least for the sake of your village. Many people I have spoken to wonder why Sodom didn't go over there and flatten the place (which I disagree myself).

Now it is safe to read below for now

There is a thread of a similar nature stated here. Should this thread somehow gets pulled back on topic, there probably be a merge. What was being discussed is how to prevent such vandalism from happening again. From my intel, I think they are working on such a solution and I am willing to help out if it helps solidify the route of Constantinople. I believe that these guys will attempt to try again to attempt to screw Sodom (which imo, it screws everyone else even more than Sodom) since they have died to multiple hands already a few listed: me (Prontera), OnionFighter ? (Bottleneck), Sodom. For those around the area, I recommend people start taking measure to solidify their defenses by the following means:

1. Palisade is the minimum since many do not have wrought. Once you do, get that brick wall up as soon as you can. The wrought can be traded.
2. Extend your village claim far enough past your village walls at all sectors. Mass hemping may be required.
3. Make sure everyone has good armor on them. The armor can be traded.
4. If possible, learn how to defend yourself by increasing your melee and some unarmed skill. Refer to my combat guide for learning.
5. Learn how to solidify your defense by not utiizing gates. Refer to Avu's post here.

[johnsmith]

Dataslycer,

Burg and I were discussing this.

Stop using selective and partial quotes out of context to justify your position.

A simple apology would suffice from you power hungry, know it alls.

I did not figure I would achieve anything other than the response like yours.

Simply put, I did not ask for advice from a failed know it all village manager like datoneguy who was a thief and was killed for it. He started the snowball rolling down the hill. You want to go to the root of it all it is that. If I wanted advice on something I would have gone to the "how to" threads.

I simply started a recruitment thread that was trolled by sodom's goons and know it all's and received nothing but attitudes and grief since.

GO LOOK IN THE MIRROR and get away from that brain frying computer monitor for a few seconds at least.

[Dataslycer]

Well I guess talking to you is useless if you doesn't bother even read anything I say, even if I did concede some valid points to you. Fine, end of discussion, period. Now please get back on topic.

[Sarge]

JohnSmith:

I must concede that I was not happy when I noticed warnings of danger posted on your reqruitement thread. I have tried to recruit a couple of times before and know how hard it is. My thread at the time got trolled off the mark (search "Introducing Ironwell"). For that I felt for you.

By the time I read your thread, it had already turned into shit (you will notice how late I potsed for the 1st time) and I would not have been able to do anything about it in any case.

But this has gone far enough now imo, noone is gaining a thing out of this back and forth bitch-slapping shit.

Time for everyone to stfu really, take stock and let's try be civil from scratch... only a suggestion and my honest opinion.

[JoeBlade]

Whenever you feel like life as a criminal gets boring and you want to be a gardener give me a call and you can take care of Nople.

I think such city more corresponds to game subjects rather than nople? Or I am not right? Great Novgorod well you know history yes?

map2_min.jpg

.JPG

Well and trading numbers certainly.

[johnsmith]

Dataslycer,

In saying things like I am lucky Sodom doesn't flatten my village doesn't help with wanting to read much of what you say.

Seriously even if every my village was nuked it wouldn't bother me because it is a game.

It is the attitude and manner in which you present these things that is relative. You point out the issue of my image being tarnished. Simply imagine the impression you make on others outside your circle.

Sarge,

You have been apart of some of this as well, the tone once again civil, is more acceptable, but we will see as well.

Yes this all has gone on too far, this thread should go to hel, besides it is more a personal issue thread now which is too long for anyone to actually follow unless they want to lose an hour of their life trying.

But you guys know exactly where you went wrong and when, you may want to try to prove innocence on whatever points, but if not for datoneguy we would not even be in this mess.

We are all guilty of something so from now on please don't derail my threads.

[Dataslycer]

I'm glad that is over with. John, got any input on how to prevent the possible vandalism of the crossroad?

[Tacheron]

OK warning, huge amount of debating text below
Now DatOneGuy has had his fair share of experience with raiders, having being a victim (and yeah the action that landed him in the waters was not smart), as well as witnessing victims getting raided constantly, Ravenholm struck 3 times by the same person, his own friends witnessing someone break down their palisade before getting shot to death by a ranger bow.

Just thought I'd confirm this as I remember seeing this statement being questioned in the aforementioned recruitment thread. It was me and my gf that got killed. It was quite a shock, but we've learned much and have improved our defenses since