The Reformation of Wayneville

[Spider]

Very long, biased: Do not read unless interested. I invite you to block my posts if you find them disturbing and don't want to be bothered.

Burgingham has requested that I not post my questions about the change in Wayneville's policies in the thread about Wayneville, so respecting his wish I am posting here.

This is the follow up of a number of posts I made in that thread asking if there was any evidence that Wayneville would change its policies. The response to my posts has been on the negative side. It seems very much to me that they have been seen as an attack.

Prior to the map reset the village of Wayneville practiced killing noobies and non-consensual abusive role play. I think by stating that baldly here without any evidence or testimony I will get some angry denials. This is a repeat of the claim that I have made in the other thread, with my reasons and observations. At that time nobody denied there was antisocial stuff done by Wayneville, they just told me to shut up. Since I already described my personal experiences with Wayneville and why I describe it as non-consensual abuse I won't recap here. In the first post of the New Wayneville thread Burgingham stated that they were no longer going to do the bad stuff and as evidence he proffered that certain peaceful players had joined New Wayneville. I paraphrase him, but that was the jist of what I understood.

Here's my standpoint: When Wayneville was asked why doing the bad stuff and raiding cities and killing characters, the reply was that they did it for lulz, out of boredom and to get valuables without paying for them. This is absolutely their right, if they want to. The game is not set up to forbid non-consensual pvp, it is designed to strongly encourage it. They broke no game rules. Just to phrase it in a way that hopefully won't feel like an attack, Wayneville didn't used to play gentleman's league, and now they say they will play gentleman's league. I'm trying to figure out why they would do that in order to evaluate if it is a short term, long term or permanent change.

In the old map I hid and made lots of new characters to avoid being the target of raiders. In this map because of random spawning it isn't as easy. It used to be that the bulk of the players were clustered in the original area. Now the eighteen or so characters I have spawned since the map reset to explore are finding that people are pretty evenly spread out. Isolated corners on the far grids are no longer isolated the same way. This means that hiding is not as effective as it was. So how safe is it to come out of hiding?

It goes without saying that there are no 100% guarantees that Wayneville can offer. Wayneville is not a hive mind and the future is impossible to foresse. Half of them could switch to gentlemen's league permanently, one of them go rogue and try to kill as many players as possible and the rest of the quit because they found another game they like more. I'm not asking for a guarantee as much as a reason they have started playing nice that will stand up against their previous justification for not playing nice out of the desire for lulz, boredom and to get valuables without paying for them.

I'm afraid every scenario I have tentatively proffered as what's going on in the centers of power has been seen as an attack... Sorry, Trav, and anyone else who feels offended. It wasn't meant that way. So far the only explanation I've been give is "we changed our minds" and that to me can be taken as "until we change them back again"

Obviously again, Wayneville is under no obligation to satisfy my impertinent speculation. If they were to reply for instance that they had embarked on a policy of trying to unite the English speaking players against the Russians they would be revealing some private strategy that it would be highly indiscrete to blab on the forum. (Idle speculation here, not accusation, no evidence! Equally valid is the wild guess that they are secretly joining with the Russians to attack Bottleneck) If they have some deep intent like that I'm the last person they would want to know. My query and disbelief is being taken as an attack, and they would naturally assume that I would rush to create more trouble for them with that information.

There are a lot of possible reasons they might switch to a gentleman's league playing style: Jorb and Loftar told them to knock it off; they are getting tired of being regarded with loathing; they feel they have established their ruthless reputation enough that they no longer need to go around gakking people to achieve dominance; they need Trav and Innsmouth and Co as allies and this was the only way to get it; they are suckering in their previous antagonists to join them planning on exterminating them at the right moment; all this raiding has been making it hard to find trading partners and they feel they have been missing out on trade; raiding everyone around them has resulted in a no-go zone around Old Wayneville and all that grid and a half of travel time to see anyone was getting boring.... I could come up with another half dozen possible reasons they might go gentleman's league, some as a permanent change, some as a long term change and some as a very short term change. This is the kind of answer I want.

What I find troubling is that I keep asking, why? and is there any evidence? and being told trust me, trust me, because I say so, but much more than that, shut up, you have no right to ask this question. And that unfortunately makes me feel that my unease with the reformation is justified. It's a free forum, so they are allowed to tell anyone they want to that it isn't. I'm not entitled to an answer that actually addresses my question. It's also worth noting that a number of the people telling me to shut up are not Wayneville -Jackard for instance seems very opposed to my posting and the last I heard he was a Goon not a Waynevillian. But when people tell me to shut up and attempt to squelch me it's the opposite of a change in playing style. It's back to the bullying tactics that we know and love.

Yep, I admit it. I am going on and on and on about this. Yep, no doubt some of you Do Not Want to Hear It. Yep, I am insignificant and nobody has ceded me the forum bandwidth which has been claimed by the prominent players. Yep, the question is intrusive. So....

Does anyone have any evidence that the Reformation of Wayneville is real and is going to last?

[Wisp]

WHOO! Go Wayneville!

[sabinati]

there is not a possibility of hard evidence? what evidence could there possibly be? only time will tell.

[ElGato]

Well, I don't believe any of us liked the status people gave us on the last map.
For me, personally, the change is permanent. It's not that I won't kill anyone on this map, it's that I won't do it without a proper reason.
For example: If someone comes into any of WVs claims and steals or griefs, I will go after them.

I feel like most of us that were members of WV on the last map feel the same way.

On a side note: who cares what we do? As long as none of it affects you, then it shouldn't matter.
New map, new beginnings

[Potjeh]

This is my highly subjective view of the whole thing:

WV players are highly competitive. They want to fight and win wars against other factions. Last map they tried to provoke war with indiscriminate killing. What they got was Onionfighter summon-executing them. I seriously doubt that did much to satisfy their desire for war.

This map they're hoping for Russian revenge for Bitardsk etc, ie a large organized group bringing war to their doorstep. Their whole PR campaign (note how Warri brings up RUSSIANS BAD everywhere he can) is meant to breed even more animosity to ensure that this war does happen. It's the same them/us thing Delamore did with the goon label (seriously, 1/4 of the words in his posts are "goon"). It didn't work back then, and it won't work now. Why? Because every single bit of H&H's design discourages, nay, prohibits, open warfare and PvP in general. Like I said: permadeath, high-investment characters, PvP - pick just two, J&L.

So no, I don't think they'll return to indiscriminate killing. They'll just try to provoke Russians into attacking, because they're the best candidate for an enemy.

[Haba]

I'd like to introduce you to this thread;
viewtopic.php?f=9&t=5129

As background: In the old map, Wayneville raided both the towns I was a part of repeatedly, eventually even killing our cows and destroying all of our production facilities. I had personally my main killed twice by a member of wayneville.

In the end, I was one of the individuals who raided WV to put a stop to it (though belatedly as the reset announcement came).

I'd like you to ask yourself weather I, or several others with similar background, decide to join "Wayneville"?

There is no "Wayneville" anymore. There is a new group with new dynamics. Future will decide at which direction it goes, but rest assured that things are not that black and white as people tend to think.

[warrri]

Here are some unbiased facts for you.
Wayneville always consisted of more than 10 people. Out of those 4 were german. Klaue, Hermedicus, burger and me.
Only 4 people of Wayneville ever raided things. Klaue, Hermedicus, Gato and me. Rage only raided Cop once, because he tried to betray us, then got betrayed by Chak, then pretended allegiance to us and continued living in WV etcet(yes rage, we knew about it).
There were other people, like Darki, who observed the Codexia raid with alts, but never ever did anything, nor had the intentions to harm anyone.
We raided because we were bored. By we i mean the 4 people i described above. We had every possible item in high quality, due to- but not only because of- the legendary coal. And yea, its easier to get chestful of chants, bulbs and cheese for free, then to gather or trade them.
By the way, i left wv 2 days after mapreset, then lived alone, then got raided and killed by goons, then rejoined wv. During the time i was living alone i heavily flamed members of WV myself, not mainly for the coal, but because of their actions they did (they raided voodoo's and mine settlement. Voodoo then paid delamore to kill xybb, but delamore told wv and they pretended xybb to be dead - by the way, when delamore came to wv he also stole some of the bugged water, resulting in the q187 tree the goons had ).
So i joined WV, because the game is a RPG. People may not change, roles do.
The same happened this mapreset, when almost all members of COP joined us.
Of course we cannot possibly guarantee you that we will never go raiding again, what if the mechanics get changed and its actually even more fun and not so hurtful for others if you do raid. But at least I am really tired of losing first a 10m, and then another 17m char.

To Potjeh: Just because you have one good russian neighbor it doesnt mean all of them are good By the way i was born in Russia. I can read, i can write, i can even THINK russian in my mind. Yet my "propaganda" consists of mostly facts. DId you even bother reading the forum lately. The not ending threadse about walled in gates? Even WE got griefed by a russian one day after mapreset.

[Potjeh]

I'm not doubting the factuality of your statements. I'm just saying that you're deliberately putting a certain spin on them. Why do you emphasize the nationality of your raiders so much? Assholeism knows no ethnicity or creed.

[warrri]

I'm not doubting the factuality of your statements. I'm just saying that you're deliberately putting a certain spin on them. Why do you emphasize the nationality of your raiders so much? Assholeism knows no ethnicity or creed.

Of course i do, they are an annoyance and they are the biggest community ingame.

Because the misinformed people that are daring to speak up are deliberately speaking of the german wayneville.

[Potjeh]

The Russian community is hardly a monolithic entity.