Various Ideas

[niltrias]

First, Id like to say that I completely agree with Phaedris...his ideas are awesome. I especially like the funeral idea.
Here are a few of my own ideas'

Shorter day/night cycle added to the seasons
Im not sure why the 8-hour day/night cycle was chosen, but I would much prefer to see a shorter one...maybe 1 hour or two hours max. The main reason is time, and it comes down to two sub points
1 - I dont personally have time to play this for more than 8 hours at a shot, so if I log on and it is night, Im pretty well stuck for the duration. Shorter day and night cycles would give some variety to play.
2 - I work, which means Ill be logging on at roughly the same times each day I play. Which means Im stuck playing only in the day, or only at night. Again, shorter cycles would give people with busy schedules some variety in play.

LENGTHY jobs
I really like the amount of time required to grow wheat and so forth...it takes a lot of the pressure off the game and moves it from a game where you need to be on constantly clicking in order to succeed to a slower, more realistic pace. Id like to see this expanded to things like building huts and other large, permanant features. It would also add in the teamwork bonus...if I log on and see a pending build by one of my friends, I might be able to help out and shorten the build time. Im only suggesting this for the major, permanant things, like huts and wells. I think the time required for axes and fishing and what not are just fine.

Personalization of the character
It is REALLY hard to tell people apart. How about letting them change facial hair during play, possibly with a time delay...takes time to grow out a beard, ya know. Also, the ability to choose skin color at start-up. More and different types of clothing and hats, altthough Im sure that last point is already somewhere on your long list of future features.

Tameable/leadable/BREEDable Animals
I find some sheep while exploring. Id really like to have some, but it takes 30 minutes to walk from where I am to the sheep. No problem, Im an experienced animal handler. I take out my rope, toss it over ones neck, and lead it back to my hut, where I pen it. Assuming that the foxes dont devour it or me on the way. Eventually, I make another trip, capture another, and have a breeding pair. My nemisis, who lives over the hill, is jealous of my good fortune and sneaks in one night with a rope of his own and makes off with the lot.

Destructable buildings
We are quickly seeing deforestation as a significant problem. This will be remedied slightly by tree planting or natural tree respawn, but if I built a hut in JUST the wrong spot and want it fixed now, why not let me salvage the hut and re-use the materials for a new hut? same with buckets and whatnot. Of course, there is a risk of permenatly losing raw materials, but this would considerably reduce the amount of forest needed while adding a level of realism...people in primitive survival situations who just spent time making planks arent going to make new planks, they are going to carefully remove the planks from a no longer needed structure.

Skill tree levels
I actually like the skill tree, but what Id like to see added is levels within the skills. for example carpentry allowing X new abilities but carpentry 2 allowing faster or lower stamina or higher quality use of these abilities. This would cause the need for specialization, which increases interaction. If i can bake bread just as well as my neighbor, there is no reason to trade. But if I can bake bread better and he can raise crops more easily, we will quickly realize it is in our best interests to continue to specialize...him in increasing his wheat outpput, and me in increasing my skill baking.

That said, this game looks like its going to be fantastic. Thanks for putting in the time and Stamina, Im sure it hasnt been easy.
And, sorry I dont have any pics. heh.

[moonshield]

#5 is a must imo.

My little suggestion is to draw player names above them and imrove the chat system a little (a history and a button to chat (or is there one already ))

[kaka]

I think 1 or 2 hours for the day/night cycle is a bit short, considering what they are/might be planning for day/night specific events,
but I totally agree with you otherwise.
They will probably stick with their choice, though. :(

Co-op building, tameable/breedable animals and destruction of objects are all planned, but it's likely to take a while.

I like your idea about the skill tree levels, but they ruled out individual skill advancement before, so let's not hope for too much.

I also believe that some kind of character recognition is a must, but it won't be with names above the heads like in other games.
I've been given at least 2 reasons for that before:
1) The world view should only contain the world. They want to limit the number of GUI elements as much as possible.
2) When you see people IRL you don't automagically know their names, and it should be the same in Haven.
I can understand that, but I wouldn't mind being able to see the names of those I've greeted or tag people with whatever name I want to
and if the graphical question is a problem, it should be easy to just toggle the names on/off.

But all good ideas imo! :)

[niltrias]

Ah. I thought I had read the forums, but I missed the part where they ruled that out.
Ah well. Just posting my thoughts.

[kaka]

Ah. I thought I had read the forums, but I missed the part where they ruled that out.
Ah well. Just posting my thoughts.

I spoke with them IRL about it some time ago, so it's not written on the forums. ;)

Keep posting, all ideas are welcome! :)

[shockedfrog]

I agree with changing the day/night cycle to something that doesn't fit evenly into a real day in order to shake things up for those who can only play at particular times, though not drastically shorter, something like 5 or 7 hours perhaps?

I rather like the lack of playernames and think it'd actually be better to take that further - right now you can find someone's name by opening a chat window with them without actually saying anything, perhaps the name should only be revealed if they choose to. However, in order to make it a bit easier to catch thieves who'd take advantage of that anonymity, there could be an alternative way of tracking them, like you right click on them and 'identify', which adds them to a kind of tracked players list, and you'll spot them next time without needing their name. A tracked player could lose their pursuers by changing appearance, which would require time and perhaps also some items and a disguise skill.

Tameable animals, for the likes of sheep/cows etc. is a good idea. Extending this to some limited attacking creatures could also be good, such as having a guard dog on your land, though I wouldn't extend it to taming anything (a very similar game to this allowed that, and it was fun, but there are a few differences that mean it wouldn't suit this).

Co-op building is good, but I think the game should avoid falling into the 'forced teamwork' trap that the vast majority of MMOs do these days - I'm not against teamwork in general, but people worth working together with tend to be quite rare. The difficulty is in finding a balance that means people aren't forced into uncomfortable interactions, but are still a part of the general game economy. I think a solo player should be able to learn everything (no situations where learning one skill prevents the player from learning another), and create anything in a reasonable amount of time (nothing should say 'requires 2 builders' or anything like that), but those working together will be able to make stuff quite a bit faster, and it'll also be easier since they can work together to obtain/deliver materials. Those who find it too much hassle may attempt to trade for something, or to consider the option of stealing it. Being able to steal stuff is a potentially great feature, one that only a few games have really tried before and though none of those have succeeded (they generally end up removing it instead of even trying to balance it) I have some faith in this. The two obvious challenges are making things trackable in a way that fits the game - perhaps some kind of tracking magic that can be cast on an item you think someone's going to steal, or maybe being able to right click on a suspicious item (an empty slot or an item that's been planted/moved by someone else) and track footprints from there? - and making sure it's not too easy for someone to take something and then stay safe simply by logging off while the victim is online, while at the same time not punishing someone too much for a relatively minor crime, allowing them the opportunity to clear their name or make amends.

[Phaedris]

I agree with niltrias shorter day night cycles would make the game more enjoyable, logging on and always being in night or day is a bit annoying.
1-2 hours a day seems reasonable max maybe 4, the developers could trial a shorted day so people could see what its like then if no one likes it then they could always scrap it.
When loftar talked about the seasons he said to make it to scale with the day length it would have to be a real month and talked about having it a week instead, by reducing the length of the day to 2 hours that would mean a season would only be a weak and still be in proper timescale.
And before anyone brings up full moon wolf packs they would still be hunting you for a full hour which would seem like a long time, also the way the day night cycle is at the moment only a few people would meet them as alot would log in only during the day.
If they don't want to shorten it to 2 hours, 4 would be atleast alittle better, people could atleast have a chance of playing out a full day, but i still think 2 hours seems the best.
I like the idea about making huts and other buildings take longer is a good one with co-op builders getting a speed bonus.
Dismantling of buildings is a interesting idea definitely one I think should be implemented.
Skill tree levels sound interesting making someone have the option to become more specialized, at the same time this would allow others to have the same skill but not be as good at it.
I don't like the idea of floating names they just clutter up the interface having a toggle would please everyone if you didn't like it you could turn it off.
Kaka you said they ruled out individual skill advancement is that due to them thinking its a bad idea or down to time to implement it?

[jorb]

I agree completely that constructions should require a whole lot more to put up. Walking around, I've noticed the area around the Ring of Brodgar getting spammed with little log cabins in a very short time span, many of them seemingly deserted. These buildings should decay over time, of course, but apart from that I think that they should require more resources to build in the first place. One tree per cabin is just silly. 30-40 would make more sense. This would also, implicitly, increase the amount of time required for their construction. Any house should feel like a bit of an accomplishment, and right now, frankly, they don't. I also like the idea of a build speed bonus from co-op building, and this is something the gnome and I have talked about.



I am, for that matter, working on a new look for the cabins. Brick and stone houses are also in the works.

I also agree that the day/night cycle should be adjusted to something that does not fit evenly into the 24h IRL day, to allow for variation for people who usually play at a certain time of day. Seven hours, for example. I remain stoic, however, about retaining the fundamentals of the slow pace.

Animal domestication will, of course, be in the game.

Individual skill advancement would be cool, it is, however, not obvious what would separate a "Red Brick, Quality: 5" from a "Red Brick, Quality: 85". Some items, such as armor, weapons and food, obviously have variables that could be used to represent different quality items, but not all do.

The UI for the chats is far from optimal, I am painfully aware.

Oh, and...

The difficulty is in finding a balance that means people aren't forced into uncomfortable interactions, but are still a part of the general game economy.

... so true.

Lots of good input here, keep it coming!

[sami1337]

quality brick doesn't decay as fast.
I think 40 trees for a house is a bit too much. I think 5 felled trees for each side is reasonable but only if there's some sort of way to use and carry the actual tree, not just chopped up logs.

I'd say 30 trees and 8 boards would be fine, but the inside should be slightly larger.

[loftar]

[...]but only if there's some sort of way to use and carry the actual tree, not just chopped up logs.

You may not have noticed, but you can carry the actual felled log; just use the Lift command and click on the log.