Prelude: World 16.1

[Schwarzvald]

Nothing in my post suggested that. This is your interpretation of what was written. My post implies the exact opposite, and that after the PvP peaks out and these people quit - only the PvE players remain at the end of the servers life. This cycle has played out for over a decade. Exactly the same way.

Haven just has a lot more content now than it did ten years ago and can absolutely stand on its own legs as a survival sim.

Someone in here said, “Salem and Hearth” and unironically, yes please.

Most of people who play games in this genre don't PVP. The threat of it still colors their entire experience. It adds perceived value to their work. It makes them feel tenacious and smart for not dying to the imaginary threat. It makes the world "feel alive" when something spooky happens. For most people the boogeyman being real or not is optional.

Like how runescape, arguably the most popular MMO in the world, is basically a single player game that would never work as an actual singleplayer game. The entire game is make character's number's go up, but the character's numbers have no value unless somebody else is looking at it.

Runescapes almost entirely PvE with the vast majority of players owning mains and questing/bossing/PvE.

Number go up.

The PvP aspects are incredibly popular, but again it’s still a niche community. It’s why RS3 still exists and why OSRS became its own thing. Then deadman and the such.

Haven is in a state in which it can emulate this very thing, but with a much richer player driven world. Offer two products and bring in a larger audience. Players will absolutely drift between servers and the game grows organically.

Choosing to just continue as it has been is such a loss of potential.

Wonder then if they’d be willing to sell the IP to someone that’ll create this if they get bored?

[Havenasket]

I think 99% of playerbase has access to a bot which logs in, checks gobs, sends a Discord message, and logs out. Zero time spent looking for animals to hunt.

Which is just another broken crutch stacked on top of a broken system.
Instead of having semi-controllable (and actually rare) animal spawns, players are forced to rely on bots. You can run for hours and meet two mammoths — both Q80.

[fulma]

Nothing in my post suggested that. This is your interpretation of what was written. My post implies the exact opposite, and that after the PvP peaks out and these people quit - only the PvE players remain at the end of the servers life. This cycle has played out for over a decade. Exactly the same way.

Haven just has a lot more content now than it did ten years ago and can absolutely stand on its own legs as a survival sim.

Someone in here said, “Salem and Hearth” and unironically, yes please.

Most of people who play games in this genre don't PVP. The threat of it still colors their entire experience. It adds perceived value to their work. It makes them feel tenacious and smart for not dying to the imaginary threat. It makes the world "feel alive" when something spooky happens. For most people the boogeyman being real or not is optional.

Like how runescape, arguably the most popular MMO in the world, is basically a single player game that would never work as an actual singleplayer game. The entire game is make character's number's go up, but the character's numbers have no value unless somebody else is looking at it.

Runescapes almost entirely PvE with the vast majority of players owning mains and questing/bossing/PvE.

Number go up.

The PvP aspects are incredibly popular, but again it’s still a niche community. It’s why RS3 still exists and why OSRS became its own thing. Then deadman and the such.

Haven is in a state in which it can emulate this very thing, but with a much richer player driven world. Offer two products and bring in a larger audience. Players will absolutely drift between servers and the game grows organically.

Choosing to just continue as it has been is such a loss of potential.

Wonder then if they’d be willing to sell the IP to someone that’ll create this if they get bored?

Another one wrongly assuming the devs want this game to be popular, they have a vision bro, 120 players (90% of which are bots, probably run by the same dude) are more than enough.

[Crest]

At the risk of sounding like my opinions are bouncing all over the place, I do actually agree with that guy that the game loses its luster once walls go up.
Honestly if I really sit down and analyze the situation of the game, I think the real problem is the fence sitting nature of it. I really wish the devs would pick a lane and commit to it. If it's going to be a PvP focused game then the state of the game for basically its entire existence (speaking of the 3D haven here, not the old one, I only played 1 world of the old Haven but I thought it was extremely based) has been flawed and missing the point.
I mentioned this in my big post a few pages back, but I've always advocated for more reasons to go out of the base and being rewarded for doing so. I think skills like Exploration should have rewards that are better than farming, or just as valuable at least. Farming is done behind closed walls in complete safety. Forageables from Exploration have you going out, they have you traveling to different biomes looking for specific things, or at least they would if there were anything worthwhile to get (and collecting 1 Bluebell or w/e to then use gardening on doesn't fucking count because that defeats the purpose of exploration again IMO).
Fishing should have a higher tier it can go to that yields end-game level fish. Why? Because doing so requires you being out of your base. There should be rare monsters that you really need to diligently search for out in the wild that provide certain items that are always sought after, regardless of which point in the game you're at. The addition of dungeons helps, they're a great addition, I love dungeons, they get you out of your base too.
I don't mind the game being dangerous if that's the direction they want to go, but I'm not going to take this shit seriously when walls going up means 95% of danger has gone and you now only die if you are unlucky enough to run into a group of people out to kill while you're unprepared.
But if it's going to be relentlessly dangerous for the average player then I want that to also apply to the bigger villages.

But this is all retarded to even think about, very little gets changed, the devs are happy to fence sit and so seeing as how that's the case I'd rather just focus on the non-PvP stuff the game has to offer. Literally no big change is going to happen realistically.
My ideal playstyle isn't even viable, I've wanted to have a marksman character with high Explo that hunts shit and forages rare herbs and lives more of a nomad lifestyle but I can't even larp as that because bows are shit, explo quickly becomes worthless and there's nothing interesting to hunt.
Old haven had Rangers, new havens rangers are a meme.

Bro I rambled on again.
TL;Dr - Devs should pick a lane and either focus primarily on PvE or PvP because this half in half out shit sucks. Game does start getting dull once your walls are up though, that's all I'll say.

[Jenno]

Horse and reindeer milk.

[Robben_DuMarsch]

TL;Dr - Devs should pick a lane and either focus primarily on PvE or PvP because this half in half out shit sucks. Game does start getting dull once your walls are up though, that's all I'll say.

You've identified a reasonable issue but flopped on the solution.
I think it'd be very reasonable if walls only existed in the context of a safe place to rest, craft, and store things.

Any sort of production of raw materials arguably should be done outside of walls. Farming, herding, none of that should be risk free (cows should be easily replaced, though.) But that risk should also be toned down by making it so that characters can't be executed if they have more than 80% Hhp remaining when they are attacked, by limiting the abilities of attacks that hit you for more than your HP pool from creating wounds larger than your total HP.

Also with risk toned down, it'd be sensible to not favor the escaper in PvP contexts by allowing attackers the ability to force fights. If they KO you, don't cry that you couldn't easily escape with kritter click speed advantage. Go get revenge.

That's how basically every survival game with good PvP since Rust has worked, I think it'd be better than the Haven experience of the risk only being borne by the newbs.

[OIchi]

TL;Dr - Devs should pick a lane and either focus primarily on PvE or PvP because this half in half out shit sucks. Game does start getting dull once your walls are up though, that's all I'll say.

Yeah, choosing focus would be great or at least setting a clear direction. Right now it seems like we are getting worst of both, poor PvP that is only there to grief others.
Devs mentioned at some point that they wanted PvP as a tool of conflict resolution, but it does not resolve anything, there is no meaningful pvp, no objectives to fight over.
People are often playing murder hobos just because they are bored and there is no other pvp content.

[Lao_Bao]

How about increasing the cost of the walls,
each piece of wall will cost as much as the original
To cover a large area with at least a palisade will take much more time due to the fact that each segment will require more resources
Even building a fence around a house would take a lot of time and resources.
This could have a significant impact on the initial game, making it much longer. It's a good solution in my opinion.


The further north you go, the longer the winter should last, and vice versa.
Thus, the more fertile lands will be towards the center of the map, while the northern and southern lands will be less fertile. But they will have more and higher-quality metals, as an example.

[_Scipio]

How about increasing the cost of the walls,
each piece of wall will cost as much as the original
To cover a large area with at least a palisade will take much more time due to the fact that each segment will require more resources
Even building a fence around a house would take a lot of time and resources.
This could have a significant impact on the initial game, making it much longer. It's a good solution in my opinion.

Good Haven is less tedious; not more tedium.

[Murzynov]

So how are we gonna cheese mammoths without safe pali Gates xD

Also make entering cave/dungeon impossibru while on combat