Pre-Announcement: Siege Changes

[jordancoles]

GG you can bruteforce someone out by just making multiple catapults as they're destroyed

Fun

[JuroTheDragon]

Well guys, I think there is a good option. I have been playing once a game, where you had a Player Owned Starbases with a Force Field.
It's a lot of writing and a lot of details but generally you had a shield, onnce the POS shields have been damaged down to 25%, the POS enter reinforced mode. If there is at least one unit of Strontium Clathrates a timer will appear by the tower in space. This timer will say "reinforced" along with the length of time remaining before the tower comes out of reinforced mode. All towers can carry a maximum of around 41.7 hours worth of Strontium Clathrates. If there is not enough Strontium Clathrates in the tower for at least one hour, you can continue straight to final destruction of the POS.

The POS will exit reinforced mode once the Strontium Clathrates run out. At that point in time the shields will start to regenerate on their own. The owner of the POS can bring the shields up to the 50% mark by using ships with shield transporter modules (such as Basilisks, Scimitars, Ospreys i.e. POSpreys, or any other ship that can fit them and stay cap-stable). Once the shield has been repaired to 50%, the owner may online any modules/structures that require CPU. They may also re-stront the tower so that it will enter reinforced mode again if the shields are lowered again to the 25% mark.
If the attacking force wishes to completely destroy the POS after the reinforcement timer, they should leave a harassing force in place to prevent the repair of guns or other modules outside the POS bubble.

I think you can add same idea for Hafen, you can make something aka "fuel" for shields, you need to keep the fuel to keep up the shield's which is called Strontium Clathrates to keep the resist up and the shield generally. Then defenders can repair the shield by some repair tools, if the attacking forces wanna totally raid the village they won't let defenders to do repairs.

I think it would be fair, because defenders would have time to prepare for final battle when the shield comes out from reinforced mode, and the attackers do not need to camp 1200303x, they will just count when the reinforce mode ends and they can come back at that hour and the fight begins

[Raffeh]

There needs to be some way for the defenders to respond, as many villages (and all hermitages) can go 12hr without being online quite often.

I don't think you should underestimate the resources required to bring a shield down in 12 hours, though. I doubt anyone would go to that length against some hermitage, at the very least.

Can you clarify how many brimstone you will need for this?

[Ysh]

There needs to be some way for the defenders to respond, as many villages (and all hermitages) can go 12hr without being online quite often.

I don't think you should underestimate the resources required to bring a shield down in 12 hours, though. I doubt anyone would go to that length against some hermitage, at the very least.

''If someone can then they will, eventually.''

I seem to recalling some discussion a long time ago, before Hafen release. People are asking for some automated tower defenses. The argument was from you guys (if I'm remembering, tell me if I'm wrong, I don't want to putting my words in your mouth) was something as ''many resources is not a good check for the system, eventually someone will get that many resources. If few towers are good enough to defend the base, someone will build lots of tower and make it impossible. If even lots of towers are no good, towers do not need to exist in the beginning place.''

Maybe you are right that no body will go though the efforts. But they certainly could. And I think the most terrible thing that can happen in this game is to lose everything without being with an ability to reaction defense.

[Shadow7168]

We still need a larger scale rework, but I think these changes will atleast make raiding possible.

I'd like to see a village war system, where an attacker has to pay either LP, loot or a special resource to declare war on another village. Both villages don't regenerate claim shields and are allowed to commit crimes without leaving scents on each others claims. Charter stones are disabled, and resources cannot be taken out of the village (but they can be taken in).

I'm not saying that it's a perfect system, or even a good one, but that type of total warfare is what it'll take to see large-scale sieges.

Likewise, we could have a similar system for "raids"; two factions offer up resources for "loot", and if they both accept a limited battle is allowed, no sieges but whichever side kills the most LP worth of characters after a certain period is considered the winner and takes all the loot.

Hopefully the costs of the attacker maintaining the war will make it so that it can only be done for a limited amount of time, but I feel there should be some other mechanics to help the defenders fight back other than doing a counter-siege.

[MightySheep]

I dont understand this at all, theres a bunch of numbers and random terms I havent seen before, where is the rest of the information?

Here's my best guess: All claims have some kind of "shield" that is connected to the wall soak or something. This "shield" probably slowly regens but you can make it go down by firing catapults at walls, if you do this daily you can eventually deplete the shield and then the walls start taking damage from the catapult? Catapults get damaged after use (no idea how long this takes) then you have to wait 1 hour and have a bunch of brimstone to repair it each time.

Sounds like an insane amount of time, effort and resources will be needed to do raid anybody. Meanwhile you have to remain completely exposed to counter attacks, archers and alt spam which will probably be consistently destroying your siege weapons (I hope there is strength requirement to destroy catapults). It's hard to say how bad it is without testing but on the surface it doesn't seem realistic. Even if you try to raid a lesser village, they will probably make a forum thread with the location and suddenly everyone will turn up for easy PvP.

[Arcanist]

There needs to be some way for the defenders to respond, as many villages (and all hermitages) can go 12hr without being online quite often.

I don't think you should underestimate the resources required to bring a shield down in 12 hours, though. I doubt anyone would go to that length against some hermitage, at the very least.

Do you really want another dole cryfest on your hands? Except it could be a major faction saying we lost everything in 12hr with no chance of stopping it because we were sleeping.

[sabinati]

I dont understand this at all, theres a bunch of numbers and random terms I havent seen before, where is the rest of the information?

Here's my best guess: All claims have some kind of "shield" that is connected to the wall soak or something. This "shield" probably slowly regens but you can make it go down by firing catapults at walls, if you do this daily you can eventually deplete the shield and then the walls start taking damage from the catapult? Catapults get damaged after use (no idea how long this takes) then you have to wait 1 hour and have a bunch of brimstone to repair it each time.

Sounds like an insane amount of time, effort and resources will be needed to do raid anybody. Meanwhile you have to remain completely exposed to counter attacks, archers and alt spam which will probably be consistently destroying your siege weapons (I hope there is strength requirement to destroy catapults). It's hard to say how bad it is without testing but on the surface it doesn't seem realistic. Even if you try to raid a lesser village, they will probably make a forum thread with the location and suddenly everyone will turn up for easy PvP.

all of these terms are explained here viewtopic.php?f=39&t=46796

[MightySheep]

There needs to be some way for the defenders to respond, as many villages (and all hermitages) can go 12hr without being online quite often.

I don't think you should underestimate the resources required to bring a shield down in 12 hours, though. I doubt anyone would go to that length against some hermitage, at the very least.

Do you really want another dole cryfest on your hands? Except it could be a major faction saying we lost everything in 12hr with no chance of stopping it because we were sleeping.

Wow, what a stupid post. The dole thing is totally irrelevant, it was about bugs. No "major faction" can possibly be justified in crying about failing to stop a 12 hour long raid, especially if the enemy has invested so much time and effort into pulling it off. You snooze you lose

[Archiplex]

What's the ideal image you guys carry for a raid?

Do you want people to be able to raid a place in a single day and be able to break in and get out very easily, or do you want it to take time?

After looking at the entire system, I thought it could fit into something along the lines of this:

Catapults are meant to whittle at a base's defenses slowly over time (the shield), we should be able to damage a base's health over time until a certain damage cap- where then the defensive side will have to act (maybe such as a power that costs a lot of influence/lp/some rare materials? that nullifies all damage for a period of time, which any outsider can see how long until they can hurt it again) to either run and escape, or prepare a fighting force back against the raiders. After that damage cap, the raiders should be able to completely break down the walls and get in.

Battering rams should arguably be different, a slow and very hard to set up attack that can completely pierce defenses (without a damage cap), but would either have to be fiercely camped by raiders, or only used on idle defenses.

I personally really like the idea of an enemy faction building catapults and 'sieging' a place over the course of a day or two, to whittle down it's defenses. The defending party should know the approximate time that their shield will go down, and they could then plan to have an actual fight or not.

Also, regeneration should arguably not happen if a certain amount of damage is taken per regen cycle- but regen much faster otherwise?

Just throwing random ideas, obviously they'll be flawed in a way or another, but i do like where this is going.