Game Development: Starboard Bough

[BigCountry]

Disabling PvP in a sandbox game where you build and shit is a great way to guarantee people will grief in a variety of ways even worse than normal pvp.

Yeah but it would be at least be face to face fair grief in those separated areas of the map. I remember in Salem dudes would AFK in town and get "pushed" over and over again into the "arena" (pvp toggle on) then BAM....looted

[wonder-ass]

This is not a pvp mmo. Neither was Salem. Not even close. You want those types mmos they are dead. Shadowbane was KING. Darkfall was second. If you are not old enough to have experienced Shadowbane - you missed out on one of the best pvp sandbox territory controlled mmos ever constructed.

There is just too much redundant meta micro ass shit to manage. And the map in this game is just too large (and its a pita to travel far as active pvp goes), and there is nothing really to fight over. Plus I do not even think the engine will support that much network traffic if few dozen clients are logged into one area going at it? Shit it lags me with 3-4 alts are logged in next to each other

This game is more a logistical loot horde game. You gank peoples RL time on all the shit they have horded versus hording it yourself. Rinse and repeat.

What you end up (when that's said and done) is a few TITAN ASS characters doing their rounds and looking for anyone and anything to f up. Salem was the same way..

At least this game has an active dev who wipes the worlds periodically. Or it would have died a horrible death as did Salem.

This game would actually draw in WAY more revenue if sections of the map were PvE only...could at least build some sort of community. Without it, it's that exploited/unbalanced..

Just my .02

*cheers*

This is not a pve mmo, Not even close.

[DoctorCookie]

PVP as a deterrent to griefing has not worked in this game, in any game ever. That ship has sailed. And no "it would be a hundred times worse if...." is not valid either. It's a straw man argument and "what about v-claim wars" is not valid either. Then we could see that and say "look, see, you can see the griefing right there!" and that could be a fix made. I am not taking a stance against PvP, just saying.

[wlkk011]

Finally an update kicked most players out of this game. While raiders start hunting people to make them quit from day 3 in this world, you still want to make it easier to kill.
people don't worry about pvp, but not come for pvp 24/7, especially those raiders only have brave to hunting hermits 24/7. people come to play game after work, not to have a job which is play with them.
pvp is a competetion of combat ability in other games, but here only for rob

[shubla]

Yea wtf devs doing. First they do bunch of nice qol things then make sure that literally no one plays their game by making ganking and pvp ridiculously easy( like it was not already easy enough!?)

[SnuggleSnail]

The factionbois who want redhand have some points. It actually does /something/ for them. I mean their points are shit, and it's super telling that the most autistic faction fighters whose IRL time has no value not seeing how insane time sinks being removed from PVP might actually result in more PVP than the 3-5 interactions this entire world troll was able to muster, only one of which resulted in a KO and no deaths of relevant ppl. That is assuming all of the people included in the examples wouldn't have just been outside regardless of if they were redhanded or not, which is a PRETTY BIG stretch I M O

You hermits tho are actually wrong. I bet none of you knew my name is world 10/11 in spite of me being just as much of an aggressive retard that wanted to kill you all. I didn't kill nearly as many ppl because spookybois would actually track me in those worlds. You guys actually very badly want competent PVPers to be playing all world, even if they will kill hermits they come across because they keep other hermit slayers in check. If there were a single person I was afraid of playing it would do more to prevent me from killing/sieging you than redhand ever has. A single person I'm afraid of existing becomes a lot more likely if a prerequisite to PVP is having autistic amounts of free time, and the ability to just sit at ur computer without interruption for an hour every time you do anything.

[Varralien]

Just logged in to agree about limiting griefing. I barely use the forums but I've played haven for a few months every new world for a pretty long time. The 2 biggest things to improve playability in the game for me are limiting the amount of griefing & making this game more playable for working timeschedules.

Griefing / PVP thoughts:
Playing as a small time player / late joiner / non botting player basically limits you to being pray in this game which is completely unfulfilling. Nobody really enjoys to be bullied around by the bigger players who are mathematically impossible to beat in a fight and there aren't many opportunities for me as a hermit player to engage meaningfully in PVP. Either i will get completely crushed or will be punching down onto somebody who doesn't know the basics of the game. There should be encouragement for more meaningful fights and less killing people who can't fight back and destroying everything they own just for the kicks. If a PVP player and an average player switched accounts and fought, the PVP player could probably easily escape or run away but certainly they couldn't actually win a fight, which is a fundimental problem of the current system (specifically because this is an encouraged part of the game, not saying a 1 stat player should be able to roll a high statted account, this should be a discouraged form of combat since it's so one-sided).

Timed events:
It's actually pretty annoying to get some processes onboard such as taming and silkmaking without having to wake up in the middle of the night with a full time job. (I remember earlier this world timing the tame for when I woke up and had to set off for work in the morning and I missed it more than once due to bad timing rolls) As far as i understand steelmaking has been improved a fair bit in this area but there are some things that are extremely annoying to do when you aren't a neet willing to lose your job to log in every 5 hours. Would love to see some improvements in this area and i'm sure this will benefit a fair few others.

[ChildhoodObesity]

The factionbois who want redhand have some points. It actually does /something/ for them. I mean their points are shit, and it's super telling that the most autistic faction fighters whose IRL time has no value not seeing how insane time sinks being removed from PVP might actually result in more PVP than the 3-5 interactions this entire world troll was able to muster, only one of which resulted in a KO and no deaths of relevant ppl. That is assuming all of the people included in the examples wouldn't have just been outside regardless of if they were redhanded or not, which is a PRETTY BIG stretch I M O

You hermits tho are actually wrong. I bet none of you knew my name is world 10/11 in spite of me being just as much of an aggressive retard that wanted to kill you all. I didn't kill nearly as many ppl because spookybois would actually track me in those worlds. You guys actually very badly want competent PVPers to be playing all world, even if they will kill hermits they come across because they keep other hermit slayers in check. If there were a single person I was afraid of playing it would do more to prevent me from killing/sieging you than redhand ever has. A single person I'm afraid of existing becomes a lot more likely if a prerequisite to PVP is having autistic amounts of free time, and the ability to just sit at ur computer without interruption for an hour every time you do anything.

holy fukn cringe

As I said I wasn't even attempting to give examples of large scale faction PVP caused by it and that's not even what you were asking for. How stupid can you possibly be? I've never seen anybody straw man as hard as you. Also I don't think I've ever heard a SINGLE pvper complain about red-handed being a deterrent to PVP. Also most of the top PVPers currently have normal jobs and lives at this point. You're basically just making shit up to support your shitty arguments. There is 0 fukn chance that red-handed being removed results in MORE PVP and there is 10000% proof that red-handed results in at least SOME PVP. I seriously can't think if a single time where someone has thought wow red-handed is really preventing me from wanting to PVP lol, maybe OUTLAW specifically but red-handed, no one fucking cares lol.

Also deaths of relevant people is the stupidest shit I've ever heard you say. You already know for a fact that it's near impossible to kill people in this game unless they already have low health or you have like 1 in 100 tier luck, what are you even talking about. Also the reason you didn't kill as many people in W10/W11 isn't related to people not tracking you because red-handed is annoying it's because it was WAY easier for you to die then. In W11 if you bought rage and attacked noobs you were DEAD if you got koed. In W10 the HHP damage was significantly higher and you were just a random noob in W10. None of what you're saying is even related to red-handed you're literally just making up some autistic shit about red-handed preventing people from engaging in PVP. This is like the weakest shit I've ever read.

The only example I can think of where red-handed might prevent you from pvping is if you need to leave in like 30 minutes or something anyways and you're like "Maybe I can fight for a bit but then I'd have to leave anyways and if I get red-handed that would really suck." This is almost irrelevant though because as you mentioned earlier, all of the fights are happening near villages and people have safe palis and villages knarrs/snekks etc and everyone shares accounts. It's not really a consideration for anyone in major factions.

EDIT: You also already know the main reason PVP this world is irrelevant to even mention was because of the crashes. You're purposely hyperfocusing on irrelevant bullshit to try and make your point sound like it has some actual substance.

[SnuggleSnail]

You literally listed every single instance this world in the 4 hour rant you had in our discord, it was:

1) After a Kim you guys caught Kim when he was redhanded and KOed him with horses/snekkjas (which is cancer gameplay IMO BTW) (((within 5 minutes so this would still happen with the current system BTW)))
2) Two instances of you tracking random nabs and fucking them up when they had no chance
3) Tracked koreans while they may or may not have been redhanded and found them just outside their base walking in, never getting to aggro them
4) Somebody tracked you while you were redhanded, with I think scents unrelated to the thing you were redhanded over(?) and then ran away in a boat as soon as you pressed take aim. So more random nab stuff
5) Monke finding you red handed once and chasing you and you escaping

This is the EXTENSIVE LIST for an ENTIRE WORLD of the PVP redhand is made for you. A Single KO, and not even a good KO in a fight. Just a KO that was like 10v1 after a fight that he probably only didn't avoid out of laziness. You're right. Redhand made some PVP this world, but only in a way where you'd "um acktually" somebody who said it made none if you're being a pedantic asshole. It's an impossible to prove point either way, but I bet people not being discouraged from stealing the tar sticks from our knarrs would make more PVP from us tracking the scents while they're out doing anything while not redhanded

How can you sit there an unironically say 1 hour gay baby jail timer for doing anything every that pertains to hostile player interaction doesn't discourage new people from being hostile??? Are you fucking retarded??? That's like saying adding a 1 hour queue time to league of legends every time you win would prevent people from smurfing or something. It's genuinely one of the most asinine things I can image. Even the specific example of ppl trying to PVP on break and not doing it because they can't get redhand is something SPECIFICALLY YOU have done. More than once.

You have two arguments "muh 5 instances of PVP per world, 4 of which are nothing", and "won't you think of the nabs :sob:". I feel like the 5 instances of PVP per world one is self evidently bullshit, and having lived with us for a world I don't understand how you can say the nab protection is a real thing when we've basically NEVER not killed somebody. If you go through the entire world and catalog every one of the hundreds upon hundreds of kills you'll find like MAYBE 3-4 cases of us not killing somebody because of redhand.

Also, the "you would have died in world 10/11" thing is bullshit and you know it because everybody in our village is in murderous rage 100% of the time. I don't remember the last time I attacked somebody not in Mrage. If wanna pretend going back to 60% HHP damage making me more vulnerable would result in less nabs dying I'm down, tho. I rly want that, at least after the crash is fixed

[SnuggleSnail]

ACTUALLY, to add to the "redhand makes PVP" point I can say for sure it reduces it if you can only come up with 5 bad examples per world. Ass and I made like 3 pretty big fights in 1 week by putting rams at korea. If I didn't have to wait in gay baby jail for a full hour every time I bash an archery tower or build a ram I would ONE-HUNDRED-PERCENT single-handedly make more than 5 extra actual fights extra per world. Like, zero question in my mind.

How many raids do you think there would've been in legacy if ppl had to wait a full hour every time they made a hailmary ram? A lot fucking less, I bet. How many of those raids resulted in fights during or after because of scents? God, I actually can't get over how retarded of an argument this is. I remember when I used to not think you were an idiot.