Prelude: World 15

[VDZ]

Currently, you need to use a Wrecking Ball to break into inactive claims. It can no longer be used as siege weapon as it requires permission or lack of (an effective) claim.

Why is it a problem that you can't use wrecking balls on active claims you don't own? If the claim is still active you have no business destroying the walls without declaring war.

[vatas]

Currently, you need to use a Wrecking Ball to break into inactive claims. It can no longer be used as siege weapon as it requires permission or lack of (an effective) claim.

Why is it a problem that you can't use wrecking balls on active claims you don't own? If the claim is still active you have no business destroying the walls without declaring war.

With the w15 paradigm, where siege is explicitly treated as something that requires sort of "declaration of war" it makes certain amount of sense that Wrecking Ball is excluded from siege and relegated to civil demolition only.

However, in w14 this decision was a knee-jerk reaction to this siege.

I personally would've just made Wrecking Ball die to a single Archery Tower arrow. Maybe add super cheap primitive/rudimentary Archery Tower that can only shoot one arrow before it dies and leaves rubble.

[SnuggleSnail]

Most of the recent siege/PVP changes rly feel like they've come from people 'voting' for their short term interests without considering their long term interests.

Everybody wants to feel as if they're safe in the short term, but the thing that actually interests them in playing the game is the danger. When Jorb brought up bigger vs. smaller world on stream most said bigger, but why do you think they did that?
Everybody wants to be closer to the market.
Everybody wants (non-lethal xd) social interactions.
The world is already big enough that nobody will ever fully explore it.

The only 'real' upside to a larger world is slightly less danger of being attacked, but to reiterate danger is a large part of the challenge/excitement that most people play for. The trajectory for the game's development has been people short shortsightedly asking to be safer, and trading that safety for more fun than it's worth over & over again.

Now we're at the point where you simply cannot die short of DC or bugs, and you need to spend "some amount of precious metal" and guard a ram that can be destroyed in 5 minutes for 24 hours to destroy a Pclaim that can be made with no outside help within 5 minutes of spawning a fresh character.

It's ridiculous, and it's what happens when there's no direction from the top down, and the people in charge are constantly convinced by emotional arguments from people only considering avoiding loss.

You rework industry to have more steps in it as much as you want, or add extra steps to glass, or add a new dumb plant nobody actually cares about, but no amount of mid content will ever compete with the excitement of existing in a brutal world.

[noindyfikator]

When Jorb brought up bigger vs. smaller world on stream most said bigger, but why do you think they did that?

I was sure those retards were just trolling with this "bigger world" suggestions.

[SnuggleSnail]

Eh, maybe, but I don't think so. It's a request pretty inline with all of the other bloat making the game less fun/interesting.

There is a reason an entire village used to be razed every other week in legacy, and now that doesn't happen for years straight.
There is a reason a fighter was dying every other fight in legacy and that practically doesn't happen anymore short of them having an aneurysm and drowning themself.

[SpacePig]

I hope this new world will die in 4 months, and not spend an extra 8 months in a coma, like 14, 13 and 12 before it, not disconnecting equipment from living corpses for so long is so cruel.I hope this new world will die in 4 months, and not spend an extra 8 months in a coma, like 14, 13 and 12 before it, not disconnecting equipment from living corpses for so long is so cruel.

[Okocim]

People are asking for a bigger world in part because of the forum narration.
Big bois are threatening and killing noobs/hermits all the time, so everyone wants the world to be so big that big bois wouldn't find them, for the false sense of security.
Funny thing is that barely anyone actually quits this game because they got raided/killed its just that those that do usually care enough to write about it on the forums.
Challenges are very welcome, but if you start thinking that there is nothing you can do against your opponent it's not a challenge anymore.
People quit just because they are scared of it, cuz what is the point of investing your time when someone can just come and easily destroy your hard work.
Most players don't really want PVP.

Most of the players I ever met were somehow content with playing farmville and occasionally doing some pve.
People on the forums are saying that this is a PVP focused game, but what is the percentile of players willingly participating in PvP?
What part of the overall time you were playing have you spent on a strictly pvp activities?

The very game design doesn't promote meaningful pvp experiences, barely nothing to fight over, nothing to promote fair combat.

Sieges are the worst, No one sieges someone stronger, There are barely any instances of siege against somewhat equal opponent, so it leaves it as a tool to grief weaker players, where even if attacker wins he basically gains nothing because all there is to actually loot is trash for them, yet some people think of siege as an apex of haven.

[SnuggleSnail]

I'm a ~500 stat boi this world, and I fought people with 5k a couple times. Even if it usually only amounted to kiting them while KOing their friends, or bullying them by breaking their shit then escaping because I'd go horizontal if they ever got to touch me for long.

Last world I was in a big alliance with all the competent players, I had ~6-7k stats I think, and near the best armor on the server. Short of DC nothing bad was ever going to happen to me even if I messed up pretty bad. It's fun to be the cat sometimes, but if you're never the mouse it stops being exciting pretty quickly.

I will agree a thousand times over that time spent actually PVP is very minimal. Even the PVPbois whose names you know spend <1% of the time actually fighting people. That said, it's the risk, the struggle, the brutality, and the social dynamics driven from that aspect of the game that haven brings (used to bring) are what sets it apart from other games.

The game is *probably* about PVP for you, even if you don't want to get in a fight.

[SpacePig]

You rework industry to have more steps in it as much as you want, or add extra steps to glass, or add a new dumb plant nobody actually cares about, but no amount of mid content will ever compete with the excitement of existing in a brutal world.

You say everything is right, but this rightness is only for you, at the top of your values is domination over others and their humiliation. This is what you enjoy the most.
But for someone to be safe, and to be able to protect themselves from people like you, from the humiliation that you so like to spread, this is the same main goal.
Someone wants to have the best rare things, someone wants to be an effective manager at the head of the kingdom, someone wants to be useful and build public projects, someone wants to explore the world.
All these people can do without the constant fear of being killed by a random cannibal like you.
You say that the fear of death is “very important,” but this is the most important thing only for you personally. For most, this is only a hindrance to getting their "very important" items.

[SnuggleSnail]

Collecting impressive/rare things is a lot more impressive when having them also means you had to prevent others taking them from you.
Being an "efficient manager" is a lot more meaningful when there are stakes.
Building a mega-project/public work is a lot more impressive/cool within the context of a PVP game.
Exploring the world is a lot more exciting when something dangerous that requires mechanical or social skill to avoid could be around any corner.

There are a lot (A LOT) of games that do all of these things better than haven outside of the danger. The fact you're here instead of there probably means you prefer the excitement that comes from doing it in a space where you might die, or your work might be destroyed and you need to prevent that from happening.