Game Development: Beavertopia

[Sany_CZ]

Talking about PvP. I would welcome more, to have kill toggle. So i could avoid killing blow. It would be more beneficial to just knockout your opponent instead of killing him.

I am more incline to fight with someone in situation like, waiting for resource respawn. How about I could just knock him out, leave him. And maybe get discount on outlaw debuff?

[Sevenless]

• We have considered getting rid of the entire concept of claim shields, and instead replace it with the inverted concept of a siege bubble, constructed by the attacker. Loosely speaking the attacker would designate an area of effect in one way or another, and after some condition completes -- the passing of time, attacks against the target, or both -- the area under the siege bubble would then become available to attacks and destruction.

I don't quite understand what this means...
So..the way I take it..it kinda sounds like it would be easier to destroy someones place...Obviously the walls will still be a factor in getting in..but..I think this current claim shield mechanic seems better then this proposed idea...

Basically, how I understood it, is that the attacker designates an area to be attacked, instead of sieging an entire claim. It's far better because claim shields are heavily abusable due to the intricate weaving of claims and overlapping with village claims.

I worry about the hermit population. Depending how this is implemented, it could massively weaken the defenses of hermitages/small villages compared to how it is now.

I'd have to ask jorb/loftar for exact numbers, but I'm under the impression those people make up a notable part of the playerbase.

[Kaios]

We have considered making it so that you are returned to your Hearth fire on knockout. This could make combat more accessible and forgiving, could allow for less paranoid player interaction, could allow for casual strolls outside your walls without complete fear of death, could remove alt farms to supply a steady stream of fresh cannon fodder, could make n00b ganking less of a thing, and could perhaps allround make the game less autistic and more fun. On the other hand the biting edge of cold hard pixel death could be dulled. Do note that you would still die as per usual if you actually managed to reach zero HHP.

Permanent death is one of the core mechanics that this game revolves around so I know changes to that are not something you suggest lightly but I definitely think it's worth trying anything at least once for the sake of retaining players so the idea is worth a shot, I'm not entirely certain permadeath itself is the problem though. I mean, you'd still have newb ganking and it's nice that they may not lose their character but would it for example really help a group of newer players being sieged by veterans to defend their place or does their village just get stomped to the ground anyways albeit with their characters intact. It's hard to say for sure how such a change would effect other mechanics.

Perhaps you could take the opportunity to re-implement personal beliefs in some way and include something similar to the change/tradition slider that would allow some choice in how the death scenario plays out. Could be as simple as full change giving some negative effects to the player such as reduced LP gain or less inheritance if you do happen to die in return for porting back to hearthfire on KO. Whereas full tradition characters die normally in a fight but it could be providing the benefit of enhanced LP gain along with other bonuses like greater return of inheritance, better use of ancestor's stats when using einherjer compared to a change death, etc.

As for the slider mechanic itself I thought that was a bit boring so I'd like to see a bit more depth in such a system if you did bring it back.

[LadyGoo]

Perhaps you could take the opportunity to re-implement personal beliefs in some way and include something similar to the change/tradition slider that would allow some choice in how the death scenario plays out. Could be as simple as full change giving some negative effects to the player such as reduced LP gain or less inheritance if you do happen to die in return for porting back to hearthfire on KO. Whereas full tradition characters die normally in a fight but it could be providing the benefit of enhanced LP gain along with other bonuses like greater return of inheritance, better use of ancestor's stats when using einherjer compared to a change death, etc.

LMAO. I do not think you get the point in why the devs are suggesting permadeath removal. It's not for the sake of causals only.

[Kaios]

LMAO. I do not think you get the point in why the devs are suggesting permadeath removal. It's not for the sake of causals only.

???

I have no clue what you're talking about because all I'm suggesting is that if some players are fine with permadeath then they should be given the choice to play with that factor involved instead of simply removing a mechanic that adds a hardcore survival aspect to the game. And if someone wants to risk losing their character when there's the option available for them not to I don't see why that shouldn't involve some benefits.

So like, shut up.

[Sevenless]

LMAO. I do not think you get the point in why the devs are suggesting permadeath removal. It's not for the sake of causals only.

???.

Tone aside, I think she means that the permadeath change is aimed at late game players at this point, not so much beginners (which you referenced in the first half of your post specifically). Why she quoted your comment about some form of tradition re-implementation I'm not quite sure.

[Jalpha]

Perhaps, the reward part for the winner who has koed their opponent should be considered.

What reward do players currently get from murder which would be withdrawn if permadeath is nerfed? Seriously. What reward do some of your fighters get from killing noobs or even each other?

Murder is overused. I don't know why. I don't see any advantage from murdering characters but everyone does it.

The only advantage I see in murder is the advantage gained by a faction from having an enemy fighter removed and the subsequent logistical cost of raising a new one.

[Kaios]

Tone aside, I think she means that the permadeath change is aimed at late game players at this point, not so much beginners (which you referenced in the first half of your post specifically). Why she quoted your comment about some form of tradition re-implementation I'm not quite sure.

oh ok well in that case it was just one example out of many possible examples anyways and I only mentioned it because jorb mentioned "n00b ganking" himself so either way she's dumb and these replies are not helpful!

[Sevenless]

What reward do players currently get from murder which would be withdrawn if permadeath is nerfed? Seriously. What reward do some of your fighters get from killing noobs or even each other?

Murder is overused. I don't know why. I don't see any advantage from murdering characters but everyone does it.

The only advantage I see in murder is the advantage gained by a faction from having an enemy fighter removed and the subsequent logistical cost of raising a new one.

TBH, griefing satisfaction is a component of noob ganking at least. It's fun for some people to ruin other people's day. As to other factions: No advantage gained from not murdering them for the most part, but some positives like you mentioned.

It's not so much that murder is over-used but that the mechanics of murdering in haven just make it too attractive compared to leaving it alone. Some possible methods of changing this are things like having heavy penalties for murdering, which has been discussed and rejected in the past. So we come at it from the other angle, of making murdering either not usually available as has been suggested by jorb in the op or as many comments have suggested making the consequences of being murdered less severe (removing permadeath).

[Sany_CZ]

What reward do players currently get from murder which would be withdrawn if permadeath is nerfed? Seriously. What reward do some of your fighters get from killing noobs or even each other?

Murder is overused. I don't know why. I don't see any advantage from murdering characters but everyone does it.

The only advantage I see in murder is the advantage gained by a faction from having an enemy fighter removed and the subsequent logistical cost of raising a new one.

TBH, griefing satisfaction is a component of noob ganking at least. It's fun for some people to ruin other people's day. As to other factions: No advantage gained from not murdering them for the most part, but some positives like you mentioned.

It's not so much that murder is over-used but that the mechanics of murdering in haven just make it too attractive compared to leaving it alone. Some possible methods of changing this are things like having heavy penalties for murdering, which has been discussed and rejected in the past. So we come at it from the other angle, of making murdering either not usually available as has been suggested by jorb in the op or as many comments have suggested making the consequences of being murdered less severe (removing permadeath).

How about some benefit of not murdering others, just beating them to be unconscious. Something like that could make murdering less beneficial and promote more non permanent conflict.
Inspired by game Gothic, we could separate killing blow from main combat, so you will not kill someone by accident.